4 ms·

Learning from Cows: Community Owned WiFi-Mesh

52 points by ZacnyLos 4y ago

user249 4y ago
> This is a deliberation on our experiences setting up a space that facilitates open and decentralized micro-movements. > To take note of complexity is to let go of efficiency. When we take into account the intersectionality of approaches, when we look into each nuance more deeply, it’s only then we realise how intricate the threads of reality are This article must be for acedemics. I can't understand it, probably because I am not in an acedemic in that field
- ok_dad 4y ago
  > Here’s some thoughts on opening an office for small political or social groups to organize. > To do a thing correctly is to do a thing slowly. When you look deeper into most things you realize everything is complex in its own ways. I think this is a translation.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- LegitShady 4y ago
  "we set up some radios at various villages, and now we're going to write an article in coded language and buzzwords because what we actually have to say is about a sentence long and doesn't sound deep and meaningful when you say: doing things with other people slowly lets things get complicated and we don't think this is a bad thing, as it allows some failure occasionally." I am clearly not the target audience of this article, though, as I find the coded language to get in the way of communication, rather than facilitate it. There might be people who feel a certain way reading those words to whom this might be aimed.
- lantry 4y ago
  It might also be written by someone who isn't a native English speaker. Most of these sentences are valid, but as you note, the wording is pretty strange, almost like they were written by someone who is choosing words from a dictionary without any knowledge of what sounds "natural".
  - wmf 4y ago
    Nah, this is full of identity studies jargon.
rkagerer 4y ago
Had thought I might see photos of bovine with wifi masts strapped on.
vineyardmike 4y ago
So I’ll admit I also came to the page expecting cow-antennae or a story about learnings from community-run mesh wifi on a larger scale where neighborhoods came together to spread free internet, similar to these. https://www.meshcenter.org/networks/ https://www.meshcenter.org/networks/
superkuh 4y ago
Wireless coverage above >30 MHz or so (too high to propagate by ionospheric reflection) depends on line of sight to operate. The cell network works because people invest a lot of money to provide electrical power to very high points above the surrounding terrain. The only places that community meshes (wireless meshes without $$$) can work are mountains with cities below them or mega-cities where residents have access to the roof tops of their buildings. There is no amount of power, no special modulation, nothing, that can punch through a slight hill or a valley. Your antennas have to be above the surrounding terrain to get a high data rate mesh to work. And for most places that means spending money to get access to rooftops or towers. Everyone just adding their node in their house, car, or as a phone is not going to do it. tldr; the only thing that matters is height above terrain and that costs lots of money.
- cowtools 4y ago
  What if you just had a balloon or something that was tethered to some ground station. Might be cheaper than a radio tower.
  - superkuh 4y ago
    These days many people are working on tethered multi-copter based active radio "towers". The most interesting ones use single wire (~28awg) surface wave transmission lines with lightweight launchers on both ends to transmit significant RF power which is rectified at the multicopter to use for flight energy. Balloons and kites work but they're much more difficult to control.
    - germinalphrase 4y ago
      Any references handy to learn more?
      - superkuh 4y ago
        http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/ http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/ and my own write-up http://superkuh.com/blog/2019-11-05-1.html http://superkuh.com/blog/2019-11-05-1.html on the subject.
rurban 4y ago
I thought this relates to our project: A cow bluetooth mesh. cows wearing sensors to record if they have enough hours in the green, so their milk and meat can be labelled green, and sold more expensively. Not so much to learn from that, ethically very disturbing.

52 points by ZacnyLos 4y ago

> This is a deliberation on our experiences setting up a space that facilitates open and decentralized micro-movements. > To take note of complexity is to let go of efficiency. When we take into account the intersectionality of approaches, when we look into each nuance more deeply, it’s only then we realise how intricate the threads of reality are This article must be for acedemics. I can't understand it, probably because I am not in an acedemic in that field

ok_dad 4y ago
> Here’s some thoughts on opening an office for small political or social groups to organize. > To do a thing correctly is to do a thing slowly. When you look deeper into most things you realize everything is complex in its own ways. I think this is a translation.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
LegitShady 4y ago
"we set up some radios at various villages, and now we're going to write an article in coded language and buzzwords because what we actually have to say is about a sentence long and doesn't sound deep and meaningful when you say: doing things with other people slowly lets things get complicated and we don't think this is a bad thing, as it allows some failure occasionally." I am clearly not the target audience of this article, though, as I find the coded language to get in the way of communication, rather than facilitate it. There might be people who feel a certain way reading those words to whom this might be aimed.
lantry 4y ago
It might also be written by someone who isn't a native English speaker. Most of these sentences are valid, but as you note, the wording is pretty strange, almost like they were written by someone who is choosing words from a dictionary without any knowledge of what sounds "natural".
- wmf 4y ago
  Nah, this is full of identity studies jargon.

rkagerer 4y ago

Had thought I might see photos of bovine with wifi masts strapped on.

vineyardmike 4y ago

So I’ll admit I also came to the page expecting cow-antennae or a story about learnings from community-run mesh wifi on a larger scale where neighborhoods came together to spread free internet, similar to these. https://www.meshcenter.org/networks/ https://www.meshcenter.org/networks/

superkuh 4y ago

Wireless coverage above >30 MHz or so (too high to propagate by ionospheric reflection) depends on line of sight to operate. The cell network works because people invest a lot of money to provide electrical power to very high points above the surrounding terrain. The only places that community meshes (wireless meshes without $$$) can work are mountains with cities below them or mega-cities where residents have access to the roof tops of their buildings. There is no amount of power, no special modulation, nothing, that can punch through a slight hill or a valley. Your antennas have to be above the surrounding terrain to get a high data rate mesh to work. And for most places that means spending money to get access to rooftops or towers. Everyone just adding their node in their house, car, or as a phone is not going to do it. tldr; the only thing that matters is height above terrain and that costs lots of money.

cowtools 4y ago
What if you just had a balloon or something that was tethered to some ground station. Might be cheaper than a radio tower.
- superkuh 4y ago
  These days many people are working on tethered multi-copter based active radio "towers". The most interesting ones use single wire (~28awg) surface wave transmission lines with lightweight launchers on both ends to transmit significant RF power which is rectified at the multicopter to use for flight energy. Balloons and kites work but they're much more difficult to control.
  - germinalphrase 4y ago
    Any references handy to learn more?
    - superkuh 4y ago
      http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/ http://www.sonic.net/~n6gn/ and my own write-up http://superkuh.com/blog/2019-11-05-1.html http://superkuh.com/blog/2019-11-05-1.html on the subject.

rurban 4y ago

I thought this relates to our project: A cow bluetooth mesh. cows wearing sensors to record if they have enough hours in the green, so their milk and meat can be labelled green, and sold more expensively. Not so much to learn from that, ethically very disturbing.