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Kazakhstan’s president: We’re moving full speed ahead toward reform

131 points by acqbu 4y ago

entropicgravity 4y ago
Putin is gonna get you.
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Encouraging!
___j___ 4y ago
Let's hope they succeed. Good luck
AlexanderDhoore 4y ago
Seeing is believing.
mynameishere 4y ago
There is simply no viable alternative to globalization, interdependence and the international rules-based order Sounds like the check cleared! Really, though, it's just one paragraph after another of pablum. Does it amount to, "All our Uranium reserves belong to WEF!" Anyone know the real story? With this much avoiding-the-topic, there just has to be something nefarious going on.
- max_likelihood 4y ago
  I believe they want to signal to the rest of the world that they are still a stable alternative for western nuclear fuel buyers. Uranium is the spice, and the spice must flow. Of course they also export coal, gas and oil too.
lowkey_ 4y ago
For anyone unaware, earlier this year, Kazakhstan faced protests over gas prices (it was a tipping point, there's a lot of wealth inequality) and this president requested the help of Russian security forces to enter the country and help quell riots, and they ended up killing rioters [1]. Most of my Kazakh friends were rooting for the rioters, wanting a more free Kazakhstan, while one friend close to the government was sharing government-sponsored propaganda against the rioters. It's interesting to see the Kazakh president now take this stance and say all of this. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-59894266 https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-59894266
- oblak 4y ago
  If it's obvious to us that big changes are coming, it must be obvious to them.
- ftl64 4y ago
  Things aren't actually as clear-cut as you say. While protests started out peacefully things quickly escalated into violence, especially in Almaty. Most notably, armed bandits captured the city's airport, burned most of the government buildings, tried to assault multiple law enforcement agency offices, tried to go live on multiple TV channels, robbed ATMs, etc. The government has promised a large-scale investigation into the events, but is is already clear those people didn't want either freedom nor democracy and were quite probably influenced by criminal and illegal armed groups.
  - gkya 4y ago
    - ftl64 4y ago
      It is sure easy to make political comments on countries that you know so little about, know no one from and have never been to. fyi, I am from Almaty and been in the city in January. Can you even imagine how it felt here, waking up from gunfire in the night, having no internet and mobile connection, no means of getting in touch with people you care about, wondering if tomorrow you will still have running water, electricity and heating? Exactly. This was no people's protest, but one of a small bunch of barbaric radicalists, a shock and a fever dream for all of the citizens of the country. edit: in case someone is not yet convinced: https://www-rbc-ru.translate.goog/politics/06/01/2022/61d6b3109a794777cbcf2016?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-rbc-ru.translate.goog/politics/06/01/2022/61d6b3...
      - Larrikin 4y ago
        It's sounds like a protests in every other country.
thriftwy 4y ago
Kazakhstan, paradoxically, as it stands today is the most successful and prosperous country of ex-USSR. Baltic states have larger GDP/person but also a slew of other issues. I'd try to not ruin that when taking any reforms into account.
- distances 4y ago
  I can think contracting population to be one thorny issue the Baltic states face, but how else is Kazakhstan in a better spot than say Estonia?
- consumer451 4y ago
  I’d imagine having Russia’s only spaceport in their country would give them some negotiating power?
  - 88840-8855 4y ago
    Russia has space ports on their own soil. 30 to 40% of all starts were from their own souls, increasing trend.
warinukraine 4y ago
Could this be Kazakhstan's pivot to the west?
Galicarnax 4y ago
As someone actually living in Kazakhstan, I would not take any words of the current government too seriously.
- classichasclass 4y ago
  What have you personally seen or perceived, if you're able to discuss in detail?
  - Galicarnax 4y ago
    It's just too often that what they say disagrees with what they do, and too often that they declare reforms. They promised the freedom of speech, and yet, right now, before the presidential elections, they try to shut the mouths of journalists who criticize them (typically, fabricating cases against them). And, if you didn't know - the first thing Tokayev did in 2019 when Nazarbayev (the first president who ruled almost 30 years) handed the rein to him - is that he proposed to rename the Kazakhstani capital, Astana, to Nur-Sultan (Nazarbayev's first name). And of course, the Parliament unanimously supported the idea. Not a single member objected. Few months ago it was "proposed" by someone from the Parliament (of course, not as an own initiative, hence quotes) to rename the capital back to Astana, and Tokayev supported. The parliament voted unanimously. Not a single member objected. I do agree that things seem better in Kazakshtan now than they were even a decade ago, or even than they are now in most other post-Soviet countries. But it's still way too far...
- ur-whale 4y ago
  > As someone actually living in Kazakhstan, I would not take any words of the current government too seriously. When providing such strong contrarian opinion, it is customary, or even expected to provide some sort of backing rationale ...
  - vbezhenar 4y ago
    When you hear that your government is going to do a groundbreaking reforms. Every few years. After a while you'll get some tolerance to those claims.
loufe 4y ago
While the recent Tajikistan/Kyrgyzstan conflict is not one of "major powers" this line still felt ill-timed: "Throughout our history — and particularly since our independence — we’ve always taken the view that disagreements with neighbors must be approached constructively, and they need not lead to a breakdown in communication, cooperation or trust. As a result, Kazakhstan, and Central Asia more widely, provide a strong case study of major powers’ ability to work in alignment, in pursuit of their interests that are to the benefit of the region’s people. "
paulcarroty 4y ago
Full speed ahead toward reform? With russian military kicking protesters, regularly disabled internet and big China influence? Nope, feels like bullshit.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
exabrial 4y ago
Step 1: Break ties with Russia. Until then, everything is double-speak
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  they are kind of 'Surrounded' by Russia and China, there is no other route from Kazahstan to the rest of the world Look at the map, the only other border they have is with a litany of failed states with zero infrastructure or freedom.
  - mcfedr 4y ago
    Russia has infrastructure and freedom?
    - mtmail 4y ago
      "only other border" so Russia or China were not meant. The other borders are to Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan.
    - breitling 4y ago
      ok. Go easy in the kool-aid.
    - walrus01 4y ago
      It has infrastructure, if we mean railways, electrical grid, etc. Freedom, obviously not so much.
      - ansgri 4y ago
        Infrastructure in largest cities, especially Moscow, is world-class. The public transportation is (was?) one of the best globally, most services are digital, banking is very modern with good mobile apps and instantaneous operations. And I really miss the reliable centralized hot water supply and heating.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
nurgasemetey 4y ago
I would not jump to believe to his words after his offshore money [1]. [1] https://www.occrp.org/en/suisse-secrets/the-offshore-secrets-of-kazakhstans-president-tokayev https://www.occrp.org/en/suisse-secrets/the-offshore-secrets...
yawaramin 4y ago
Good luck with the reform but without approval voting or similar electoral reform, they risk getting stuck with a polarized political system and electorate (much like the US now).
- yorwba 4y ago
  Kazakhstan is already using proportional representation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Kazakh_legislative_election#Electoral_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Kazakh_legislative_electi... The bigger problem so far have been restrictions on which parties are allowed to run in the first place. (Hence Tokayev's statement that "We’re ushering in a new era of pluralism by abolishing constraints on the registration and formation of political parties.")
  - yawaramin 4y ago
    Yeah hence my original comment. Imho proportional rep doesn't actually solve the issue, it punts it towards the other end of the power spectrum where you get eternally deadlocked governments because no one has enough power to push through meaningful changes. Approval voting is the simplest way of fairly building that support base.
Apocryphon 4y ago
Great success!
ayazhan 4y ago
i was born and raised in Kazakhstan, but left after high school. i've been following the situation in Kazakhstan and recent events give me a glimpse of hope. Kazakhstan, just like any other post-soviet country, suffers from a host of problems inherited from the USSR, such as. - corruption - inefficient political system - erased identity - soviet mentality in addition, our geopolitics is quite challenging. not only do we border 2 major powers that often in disputes over territories (Russia and China), but we're also a landlocked country heavily relying on the very same neighbours for exports. i'm not even talking about our water insecurity. but we also got lucky in some ways. - Kazakhstan is blessed with natural resources (such as oil), which helped us a lot throughout the early 2000s - fertility rate is above replacement (2.6-2.9) - we have direct access to some of the biggest markets (Russia, China) - our borders were not chopped up to plant disputes with neighbours in theory, if we play our cards right, we could come out on top. our population is around 19 million, so agriculture, mining and services alone should be enough to provide jobs. Kazakhstan is already moving in the right direction to facilitate business development (ranks 25 for easy doing business [1]) i've been following the youth of Kazakhstan and have to admit that they are way more patriotic and optimistic than my generation. they're fluent in Kazakh, open minded and more politically savvy. our culture is also flourishing (Kazakh songs consistently accumulate more views on youtube than the population of the country) and our national identity is strengthening. i see there is some criticism over Tokayev's proposals and it's easy to be skeptical after 30 years of a repressive regime. however, i still dare to hope. prosperity is doable and we simply need a better government with a fair justice system and distributed power. if the government manages to stay away from people's business and just provide a solid platform for stable life, i think we can go far. this aligns with the "Just and Fair Kazakhstan" plan proposed by the president and i'm happy to see it. 1. https://archive.doingbusiness.org/en/rankings https://archive.doingbusiness.org/en/rankings
- gnull 4y ago
  I think even if he fails to implement a better, more balanced political system, it's still really good that they promote all these as good things. It contrasts with Russian official's rhetoric who give people bs about Russia's own special way with no democracy.

131 points by acqbu 4y ago

entropicgravity 4y ago

Putin is gonna get you.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

Encouraging!

___j___ 4y ago

Let's hope they succeed. Good luck

AlexanderDhoore 4y ago

Seeing is believing.

mynameishere 4y ago

There is simply no viable alternative to globalization, interdependence and the international rules-based order Sounds like the check cleared! Really, though, it's just one paragraph after another of pablum. Does it amount to, "All our Uranium reserves belong to WEF!" Anyone know the real story? With this much avoiding-the-topic, there just has to be something nefarious going on.

max_likelihood 4y ago
I believe they want to signal to the rest of the world that they are still a stable alternative for western nuclear fuel buyers. Uranium is the spice, and the spice must flow. Of course they also export coal, gas and oil too.

lowkey_ 4y ago

For anyone unaware, earlier this year, Kazakhstan faced protests over gas prices (it was a tipping point, there's a lot of wealth inequality) and this president requested the help of Russian security forces to enter the country and help quell riots, and they ended up killing rioters [1]. Most of my Kazakh friends were rooting for the rioters, wanting a more free Kazakhstan, while one friend close to the government was sharing government-sponsored propaganda against the rioters. It's interesting to see the Kazakh president now take this stance and say all of this. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-59894266 https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-59894266

oblak 4y ago
If it's obvious to us that big changes are coming, it must be obvious to them.
ftl64 4y ago
Things aren't actually as clear-cut as you say. While protests started out peacefully things quickly escalated into violence, especially in Almaty. Most notably, armed bandits captured the city's airport, burned most of the government buildings, tried to assault multiple law enforcement agency offices, tried to go live on multiple TV channels, robbed ATMs, etc. The government has promised a large-scale investigation into the events, but is is already clear those people didn't want either freedom nor democracy and were quite probably influenced by criminal and illegal armed groups.
- gkya 4y ago
  - ftl64 4y ago
    It is sure easy to make political comments on countries that you know so little about, know no one from and have never been to. fyi, I am from Almaty and been in the city in January. Can you even imagine how it felt here, waking up from gunfire in the night, having no internet and mobile connection, no means of getting in touch with people you care about, wondering if tomorrow you will still have running water, electricity and heating? Exactly. This was no people's protest, but one of a small bunch of barbaric radicalists, a shock and a fever dream for all of the citizens of the country. edit: in case someone is not yet convinced: https://www-rbc-ru.translate.goog/politics/06/01/2022/61d6b3109a794777cbcf2016?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-rbc-ru.translate.goog/politics/06/01/2022/61d6b3...
    - Larrikin 4y ago
      It's sounds like a protests in every other country.

thriftwy 4y ago

Kazakhstan, paradoxically, as it stands today is the most successful and prosperous country of ex-USSR. Baltic states have larger GDP/person but also a slew of other issues. I'd try to not ruin that when taking any reforms into account.

distances 4y ago
I can think contracting population to be one thorny issue the Baltic states face, but how else is Kazakhstan in a better spot than say Estonia?
consumer451 4y ago
I’d imagine having Russia’s only spaceport in their country would give them some negotiating power?
- 88840-8855 4y ago
  Russia has space ports on their own soil. 30 to 40% of all starts were from their own souls, increasing trend.

warinukraine 4y ago

Could this be Kazakhstan's pivot to the west?

Galicarnax 4y ago

As someone actually living in Kazakhstan, I would not take any words of the current government too seriously.

classichasclass 4y ago
What have you personally seen or perceived, if you're able to discuss in detail?
- Galicarnax 4y ago
  It's just too often that what they say disagrees with what they do, and too often that they declare reforms. They promised the freedom of speech, and yet, right now, before the presidential elections, they try to shut the mouths of journalists who criticize them (typically, fabricating cases against them). And, if you didn't know - the first thing Tokayev did in 2019 when Nazarbayev (the first president who ruled almost 30 years) handed the rein to him - is that he proposed to rename the Kazakhstani capital, Astana, to Nur-Sultan (Nazarbayev's first name). And of course, the Parliament unanimously supported the idea. Not a single member objected. Few months ago it was "proposed" by someone from the Parliament (of course, not as an own initiative, hence quotes) to rename the capital back to Astana, and Tokayev supported. The parliament voted unanimously. Not a single member objected. I do agree that things seem better in Kazakshtan now than they were even a decade ago, or even than they are now in most other post-Soviet countries. But it's still way too far...
ur-whale 4y ago
> As someone actually living in Kazakhstan, I would not take any words of the current government too seriously. When providing such strong contrarian opinion, it is customary, or even expected to provide some sort of backing rationale ...
- vbezhenar 4y ago
  When you hear that your government is going to do a groundbreaking reforms. Every few years. After a while you'll get some tolerance to those claims.

loufe 4y ago

While the recent Tajikistan/Kyrgyzstan conflict is not one of "major powers" this line still felt ill-timed: "Throughout our history — and particularly since our independence — we’ve always taken the view that disagreements with neighbors must be approached constructively, and they need not lead to a breakdown in communication, cooperation or trust. As a result, Kazakhstan, and Central Asia more widely, provide a strong case study of major powers’ ability to work in alignment, in pursuit of their interests that are to the benefit of the region’s people. "

paulcarroty 4y ago

Full speed ahead toward reform? With russian military kicking protesters, regularly disabled internet and big China influence? Nope, feels like bullshit.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

exabrial 4y ago

Step 1: Break ties with Russia. Until then, everything is double-speak

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
they are kind of 'Surrounded' by Russia and China, there is no other route from Kazahstan to the rest of the world Look at the map, the only other border they have is with a litany of failed states with zero infrastructure or freedom.
- mcfedr 4y ago
  Russia has infrastructure and freedom?
  - mtmail 4y ago
    "only other border" so Russia or China were not meant. The other borders are to Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan.
  - breitling 4y ago
    ok. Go easy in the kool-aid.
  - walrus01 4y ago
    It has infrastructure, if we mean railways, electrical grid, etc. Freedom, obviously not so much.
    - ansgri 4y ago
      Infrastructure in largest cities, especially Moscow, is world-class. The public transportation is (was?) one of the best globally, most services are digital, banking is very modern with good mobile apps and instantaneous operations. And I really miss the reliable centralized hot water supply and heating.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago

nurgasemetey 4y ago

I would not jump to believe to his words after his offshore money [1]. [1] https://www.occrp.org/en/suisse-secrets/the-offshore-secrets-of-kazakhstans-president-tokayev https://www.occrp.org/en/suisse-secrets/the-offshore-secrets...

yawaramin 4y ago

Good luck with the reform but without approval voting or similar electoral reform, they risk getting stuck with a polarized political system and electorate (much like the US now).

yorwba 4y ago
Kazakhstan is already using proportional representation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Kazakh_legislative_election#Electoral_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Kazakh_legislative_electi... The bigger problem so far have been restrictions on which parties are allowed to run in the first place. (Hence Tokayev's statement that "We’re ushering in a new era of pluralism by abolishing constraints on the registration and formation of political parties.")
- yawaramin 4y ago
  Yeah hence my original comment. Imho proportional rep doesn't actually solve the issue, it punts it towards the other end of the power spectrum where you get eternally deadlocked governments because no one has enough power to push through meaningful changes. Approval voting is the simplest way of fairly building that support base.

Apocryphon 4y ago

Great success!

ayazhan 4y ago

i was born and raised in Kazakhstan, but left after high school. i've been following the situation in Kazakhstan and recent events give me a glimpse of hope. Kazakhstan, just like any other post-soviet country, suffers from a host of problems inherited from the USSR, such as. - corruption - inefficient political system - erased identity - soviet mentality in addition, our geopolitics is quite challenging. not only do we border 2 major powers that often in disputes over territories (Russia and China), but we're also a landlocked country heavily relying on the very same neighbours for exports. i'm not even talking about our water insecurity. but we also got lucky in some ways. - Kazakhstan is blessed with natural resources (such as oil), which helped us a lot throughout the early 2000s - fertility rate is above replacement (2.6-2.9) - we have direct access to some of the biggest markets (Russia, China) - our borders were not chopped up to plant disputes with neighbours in theory, if we play our cards right, we could come out on top. our population is around 19 million, so agriculture, mining and services alone should be enough to provide jobs. Kazakhstan is already moving in the right direction to facilitate business development (ranks 25 for easy doing business [1]) i've been following the youth of Kazakhstan and have to admit that they are way more patriotic and optimistic than my generation. they're fluent in Kazakh, open minded and more politically savvy. our culture is also flourishing (Kazakh songs consistently accumulate more views on youtube than the population of the country) and our national identity is strengthening. i see there is some criticism over Tokayev's proposals and it's easy to be skeptical after 30 years of a repressive regime. however, i still dare to hope. prosperity is doable and we simply need a better government with a fair justice system and distributed power. if the government manages to stay away from people's business and just provide a solid platform for stable life, i think we can go far. this aligns with the "Just and Fair Kazakhstan" plan proposed by the president and i'm happy to see it. 1. https://archive.doingbusiness.org/en/rankings https://archive.doingbusiness.org/en/rankings

gnull 4y ago
I think even if he fails to implement a better, more balanced political system, it's still really good that they promote all these as good things. It contrasts with Russian official's rhetoric who give people bs about Russia's own special way with no democracy.