5 ms·

Why doesn't he simply offer money? If I needed to survive, I'd offer something like all my savings, plus 50% of my net salary for 10 years.

by rorrr 15y ago

qq66 15y ago
This would most likely reduce the number of people who would screen themselves. I wouldn't undergo a possibly horrible medical procedure for $100,000, but I might do it to save someone's life and feel like a good person. For further reading, look into social norms vs. market norms, especially the example of the Israeli day care: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=180117 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=180117 (paywall)
- Tichy 15y ago
  Would it be possible for someone interested in the money to get tested and ask for money in case of a match? Although I suppose the moral pressure would be quite high if you are already tested.
  - qq66 15y ago
    I suppose it's possible to ask for every penny someone has if you're a match, since they'll obviously pay you their last dime. It's an asshole move to go after someone at their most vulnerable, though, and if it became public would likely get you justifiably ostracized from any decent community. It's also currently illegal in the US. Of course, asking your medical costs, recuperating costs, etc. to be covered is totally reasonable.
    - Tichy 15y ago
      Not asking for myself, I was just wondering in response to the comment about offering money. So people who would only do it for money could opt in.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- FaceKicker 15y ago
  I'd be surprised if that were true; you could always refuse the money and feel like an even better person (or at least just as good). And then it would attract the people who do want/need the money on top of that.
  - qq66 15y ago
    That argument makes sense only in a fully logical environment. The whole body of research into market norms and social norms shows that people are not fully logical in such contexts.
- ark15 15y ago
  This can easily be solved by radio options on sign up form. Choose one from: a)I am interested in $100,000 if I match. b) Not in it for money but please donate $100,000 on my behalf to a charity <optional Textfield> c)I am not in this for money. If I match, I am optimistic about your recovery so please keep the $100,000 to enjoy post recovery.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
tghw 15y ago
I believe $30,000 has been offered by various people, starting with Seth Godin offering $10,000 and a spotlight on his blog to anyone who's a match and goes through with the procedure.
jules 15y ago
Because that is illegal. In the US, there is the National Organ Transplant Act which forbids paying for organs. In this law, bone marrow is considered an organ. > It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human organ for valuable consideration for use in human transplantation if the transfer affects interstate commerce. > [...] > The term ''human organ'' means the human (including fetal) kidney, liver, heart, lung, pancreas, bone marrow, cornea, eye, bone, and skin or any subpart thereof and any other human organ (or any subpart thereof, including that derived from a fetus) specified by the Secretary of Health and Human Services by regulation. -- http://www.livingdonorassistance.org/documents/NOTA.pdf http://www.livingdonorassistance.org/documents/NOTA.pdf
- jambo 15y ago
  Seth Godin and others pledged money as an incentive for a donor, but revised the offer after learning that the original offer was likely illegal. "He now promises the money to the first person who matches Gupta, regardless of whether that person goes through with the transplant: no quid pro quo." In a separate case, there is an ongoing lawsuit attempting to overturn the ban on offering payment for marrow donation. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-11/web-bone-marrow-bounty-takes-on-paid-donor-ban-virginia-postrel.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-11/web-bone-marrow-bou...
- cop359 15y ago
  Better be in jail but alive (with free health care btw.) then dead. You could do the procedure overseas.
  - pessimizer 15y ago
    The contract wouldn't be enforceable.
    - AndyKelley 15y ago
      You could hire a trusted middle man.
  - 15y ago
jgeralnik 15y ago
As far as I know, it is illegal to sell bone marrow. This source, from February, says that the law is being appealed but I don't know if a verdict has been given: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/20/local/la-me-bone-marrow-suit-20110221 http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/20/local/la-me-bone-mar...
ryanwhitney 15y ago
The GOOD article, which I linked to below, mentions a $30,000 prize.
daenz 15y ago
Organized crime just squealed with happiness. Abduct someone -> sedate and extract bone marrow -> PROFIT
- ataggart 15y ago
  But Amit could pay some criminal organization for that service right now; the abduction itself is illegal either way. Allowing for cash incentives would serve to reduce the quantity of unfulfilled demand from which black markets -- and the criminal organizations which supply them -- emerge. At the very least, such incentives would mean far more people listed in donor registries, the dearth of which is the very problem Amit is running into. http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/11/the-case-for-legal-organ-sales http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/11/the-case-for-legal-org...
  - daenz 15y ago
    > But Amit could pay some criminal organization for that service right now If he could, why hasn't he then? In the link you pasted, why did so many people die awaiting transplants if was able to be obtained illegally right now? Surely they didn't want to die. I'm not sure I want to live in a world where the economically oppressed are pressured financially to give up body parts to the wealthy in order to survive. Just my 2 cents.
    - ataggart 15y ago
      >If he could, why hasn't he then? I would suspect that he has some moral compunction against kidnapping people and killing them for their body parts. Regardless, you now seem to be implying the opposite claim from earlier. Is it that no longer prohibiting voluntary sales of organs (e.g., bone marrow) would result in an increase in such abductions/killings, or is it that such killings don't seem to happen despite the prohibition? >I'm not sure I want to live in a world where the economically oppressed are pressured financially to give up body parts to the wealthy in order to survive. Would it be morally preferable to only allow people who aren't "economically oppressed" to sell their bone marrow?

Why doesn't he simply offer money? If I needed to survive, I'd offer something like all my savings, plus 50% of my net salary for 10 years.

by rorrr 15y ago

Why doesn't he simply offer money? If I needed to survive, I'd offer something like all my savings, plus 50% of my net salary for 10 years.

qq66 15y ago

This would most likely reduce the number of people who would screen themselves. I wouldn't undergo a possibly horrible medical procedure for $100,000, but I might do it to save someone's life and feel like a good person. For further reading, look into social norms vs. market norms, especially the example of the Israeli day care: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=180117 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=180117 (paywall)

Tichy 15y ago
Would it be possible for someone interested in the money to get tested and ask for money in case of a match? Although I suppose the moral pressure would be quite high if you are already tested.
- qq66 15y ago
  I suppose it's possible to ask for every penny someone has if you're a match, since they'll obviously pay you their last dime. It's an asshole move to go after someone at their most vulnerable, though, and if it became public would likely get you justifiably ostracized from any decent community. It's also currently illegal in the US. Of course, asking your medical costs, recuperating costs, etc. to be covered is totally reasonable.
  - Tichy 15y ago
    Not asking for myself, I was just wondering in response to the comment about offering money. So people who would only do it for money could opt in.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
FaceKicker 15y ago
I'd be surprised if that were true; you could always refuse the money and feel like an even better person (or at least just as good). And then it would attract the people who do want/need the money on top of that.
- qq66 15y ago
  That argument makes sense only in a fully logical environment. The whole body of research into market norms and social norms shows that people are not fully logical in such contexts.
ark15 15y ago
This can easily be solved by radio options on sign up form. Choose one from: a)I am interested in $100,000 if I match. b) Not in it for money but please donate $100,000 on my behalf to a charity <optional Textfield> c)I am not in this for money. If I match, I am optimistic about your recovery so please keep the $100,000 to enjoy post recovery.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

tghw 15y ago

I believe $30,000 has been offered by various people, starting with Seth Godin offering $10,000 and a spotlight on his blog to anyone who's a match and goes through with the procedure.

jules 15y ago

Because that is illegal. In the US, there is the National Organ Transplant Act which forbids paying for organs. In this law, bone marrow is considered an organ. > It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly acquire, receive, or otherwise transfer any human organ for valuable consideration for use in human transplantation if the transfer affects interstate commerce. > [...] > The term ''human organ'' means the human (including fetal) kidney, liver, heart, lung, pancreas, bone marrow, cornea, eye, bone, and skin or any subpart thereof and any other human organ (or any subpart thereof, including that derived from a fetus) specified by the Secretary of Health and Human Services by regulation. -- http://www.livingdonorassistance.org/documents/NOTA.pdf http://www.livingdonorassistance.org/documents/NOTA.pdf

jambo 15y ago
Seth Godin and others pledged money as an incentive for a donor, but revised the offer after learning that the original offer was likely illegal. "He now promises the money to the first person who matches Gupta, regardless of whether that person goes through with the transplant: no quid pro quo." In a separate case, there is an ongoing lawsuit attempting to overturn the ban on offering payment for marrow donation. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-11/web-bone-marrow-bounty-takes-on-paid-donor-ban-virginia-postrel.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-11/web-bone-marrow-bou...
cop359 15y ago
Better be in jail but alive (with free health care btw.) then dead. You could do the procedure overseas.
- pessimizer 15y ago
  The contract wouldn't be enforceable.
  - AndyKelley 15y ago
    You could hire a trusted middle man.
- 15y ago

jgeralnik 15y ago

As far as I know, it is illegal to sell bone marrow. This source, from February, says that the law is being appealed but I don't know if a verdict has been given: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/20/local/la-me-bone-marrow-suit-20110221 http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/20/local/la-me-bone-mar...

ryanwhitney 15y ago

The GOOD article, which I linked to below, mentions a $30,000 prize.

daenz 15y ago

Organized crime just squealed with happiness. Abduct someone -> sedate and extract bone marrow -> PROFIT

ataggart 15y ago
But Amit could pay some criminal organization for that service right now; the abduction itself is illegal either way. Allowing for cash incentives would serve to reduce the quantity of unfulfilled demand from which black markets -- and the criminal organizations which supply them -- emerge. At the very least, such incentives would mean far more people listed in donor registries, the dearth of which is the very problem Amit is running into. http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/11/the-case-for-legal-organ-sales http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/11/the-case-for-legal-org...
- daenz 15y ago
  > But Amit could pay some criminal organization for that service right now If he could, why hasn't he then? In the link you pasted, why did so many people die awaiting transplants if was able to be obtained illegally right now? Surely they didn't want to die. I'm not sure I want to live in a world where the economically oppressed are pressured financially to give up body parts to the wealthy in order to survive. Just my 2 cents.
  - ataggart 15y ago
    >If he could, why hasn't he then? I would suspect that he has some moral compunction against kidnapping people and killing them for their body parts. Regardless, you now seem to be implying the opposite claim from earlier. Is it that no longer prohibiting voluntary sales of organs (e.g., bone marrow) would result in an increase in such abductions/killings, or is it that such killings don't seem to happen despite the prohibition? >I'm not sure I want to live in a world where the economically oppressed are pressured financially to give up body parts to the wealthy in order to survive. Would it be morally preferable to only allow people who aren't "economically oppressed" to sell their bone marrow?