4 ms·

The vast majority of the affected aren't the ones responsible for this mess, why is it hard to be sympathetic for those people?

by lawn 4y ago

tgv 4y ago
TBH, the majority is responsible for electing right-wing governments or coalitions that have put their head where their wallet is: pumping up profits of their friends and well-doers, lowering taxes, and privatizing and further ignoring infrastructure and governmental duties (and ignoring climate change, long-term changes in society, etc.). It hurts me to say that the many of the former social-democratic, and quite a few of the green, parties simply participated. So the majority might be partially responsible. If you disagree hard, we'll be heading into "politeia" discussions, king-philosophers and what not.
- tmikaeld 4y ago
  > It hurts me to say that the many of the former social-democratic, and quite a few of the green, parties simply participated. In Sweden, the green and socialists have been running the show for the past 8 years and during this period shut down 4 nuclear reactors that had at least 20+ years left of steam.
- ryan93 4y ago
  Every left wing government was fine with cheap russian gas for decades.
koheripbal 4y ago
The wave of mass hysteria in Germany, after the Japan incident, to kill nuclear (which I personally suspect was driven by Russian influence operations) came with broad public support. ...so no, I continue to have little sympathy to any issues Germany will have this winter.
- hrpnk 4y ago
  Regarding influence - there is a fairly recent report (Sep, 20th) from German journalists on the Russian lobby: https://correctiv-org.translate.goog/aktuelles/russland-ukraine-2/2022/09/20/gas-gazprom-lobby-deutschland/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://correctiv-org.translate.goog/aktuelles/russland-ukra...
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Well German politicians had little other options. The country is so hilariously anti-nuclear and you clearly can't bank on renewables without storage, what other then gas should they have done? Gas from the US or the middle east maybe?
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    Well, that may all be the case, but ignores the messing around of American lobbyism in Germany and the Ukraine regarding this, leading to the current situtation.
lucumo 4y ago
They are responsible. Democracy doesn't mean that the people get to pick their scapegoats. It means that the people have a choice in steering the country, and consequently a responsibility to steer it right. Assigning someone with dumb ideas to run the country, not checking and correcting them, and then scapegoating them when it goes wrong... That's not democracy, that's laziness and cowardice.

The vast majority of the affected aren't the ones responsible for this mess, why is it hard to be sympathetic for those people?

by lawn 4y ago

The vast majority of the affected aren't the ones responsible for this mess, why is it hard to be sympathetic for those people?

tgv 4y ago

TBH, the majority is responsible for electing right-wing governments or coalitions that have put their head where their wallet is: pumping up profits of their friends and well-doers, lowering taxes, and privatizing and further ignoring infrastructure and governmental duties (and ignoring climate change, long-term changes in society, etc.). It hurts me to say that the many of the former social-democratic, and quite a few of the green, parties simply participated. So the majority might be partially responsible. If you disagree hard, we'll be heading into "politeia" discussions, king-philosophers and what not.

tmikaeld 4y ago
> It hurts me to say that the many of the former social-democratic, and quite a few of the green, parties simply participated. In Sweden, the green and socialists have been running the show for the past 8 years and during this period shut down 4 nuclear reactors that had at least 20+ years left of steam.
ryan93 4y ago
Every left wing government was fine with cheap russian gas for decades.

koheripbal 4y ago

The wave of mass hysteria in Germany, after the Japan incident, to kill nuclear (which I personally suspect was driven by Russian influence operations) came with broad public support. ...so no, I continue to have little sympathy to any issues Germany will have this winter.

hrpnk 4y ago
Regarding influence - there is a fairly recent report (Sep, 20th) from German journalists on the Russian lobby: https://correctiv-org.translate.goog/aktuelles/russland-ukraine-2/2022/09/20/gas-gazprom-lobby-deutschland/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://correctiv-org.translate.goog/aktuelles/russland-ukra...
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Well German politicians had little other options. The country is so hilariously anti-nuclear and you clearly can't bank on renewables without storage, what other then gas should they have done? Gas from the US or the middle east maybe?
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  Well, that may all be the case, but ignores the messing around of American lobbyism in Germany and the Ukraine regarding this, leading to the current situtation.

lucumo 4y ago

They are responsible. Democracy doesn't mean that the people get to pick their scapegoats. It means that the people have a choice in steering the country, and consequently a responsibility to steer it right. Assigning someone with dumb ideas to run the country, not checking and correcting them, and then scapegoating them when it goes wrong... That's not democracy, that's laziness and cowardice.