6 ms·

Here's what rich countries are doing in general: outbidding pour countries for the limited amount of resources available in the short term. I lived in Switzer

Here's what rich countries are doing in general: outbidding pour countries for the limited amount of resources available in the short term. I lived in Switzerland and of course they are doing great, but Swiss people won't be the ones freezing to death in winter. Also the amount of LPG redirected from India and Pakistan to Europe will have a huge effect on those countries. In Hungary the country is trying to get back to wood burning and lignite (the worst type of coal), which will increase air pollution enourmously, but I believe it will the worst winter there since I was born (40 years ago).

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Here's what rich countries are doing in general: outbidding pour countries for the limited amount of resources available in the short term. Not just energy, but food, vaccines, medical supplies, consumer products, etc. This has always been the case but now it's at the point where third world countries will probably have major civil unrest and emigration due to the shortages of food and energy they will face from being outbid by Europe and other rich countries during this shortage. Europeans can resort to going on fewer and less expensive vacations to compensate for the increased prices of energy, food, game consoles and GPUs, but I doubt anyone here will actually starve or freeze to death, while that may be an actual reality for some people in some developing nations.
- jozvolskyef 4y ago
  European != middle class.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    The poor and vulnerable people in places like Austria, France, Germany, Netherlands, etc. receive generous welfare and assistance from the government to not starve and freeze to death. They'll be fine. In Eastern Europe, not so much.
    - jozvolskyef 4y ago
      Are you implying that France, Germany, and Netherlands don't have homeless and elderly people? These two groups are the most at risk of dying form cold. edit: I'm glad that you mention Eastern Europe, which is where I come from. Paradoxically, more people die from cold in the West, because their milder climates don't force them to invest in insulation. edit2: the previous claim may be based on flawed methology, see https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/38/4/806/2966950 https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/38/4/806/2966950
      - trasz 4y ago
        At least here in Cambridge social services literally rent hotel rooms for homeless folks when it gets dangerously cold.
- incone123 4y ago
  Poor people in Europe already die of cold every winter. The UK especially has a lot of housing in bad condition. Before the pandemic I would regularly see retirement-aged people sitting in the local indoor shopping centre all day in winter.
  - distances 4y ago
    Where exactly? At least in Northern Europe it's very rare that even homeless would die of cold, and most of such cases are due to drunkenly passing out in the snow.
- xiphias2 4y ago
  If you really think that all Europeans are going to vacations and buying game consoles, you havent been to a village in an Eastern-European country yet. I am sure that living from $70/month would be hard for any of us, but some people have to keep their whole family alive from that money, and definately depend on the government this winter. If they freeze, nobody will know about them and they will be just deleted from the statistics. Heres a video of how the poorest part of Hungary looked like a few years ago, and I am sure their life has just gotten much worse since a few years ago: https://youtu.be/FvoTaqutfVk https://youtu.be/FvoTaqutfVk
  - Tenoke 4y ago
    I've been to villages in Eastern Europe and wood burning is among the main methods of heating. I'm guessing the price increases of everything else is what's a bigger problem there.
    - KronisLV 4y ago
      > I've been to villages in Eastern Europe and wood burning is among the main methods of heating. I am from Eastern Europe (Latvia) and this does mostly hold true for the countryside: wood burning stoves are common. However, it is likely that inflation and other cost increases will also affect the prices of firewood from here on out, as well as getting it delivered (unless you decided to secure your own, though depending on where/how you do that, the legality might be dubious). From what I know of, most people are noticeably hit by the increase of prices in the stores (as well as a somewhat decreased selection of what's available), in addition to greatly increased electricity prices, which has been a topic that gets brought up often in the news. There aren't that many great solutions for that, to be honest - both diesel generators and solar panels are too expensive for most people, even though there are programs to aid families with purchasing and setting up their own, if they're capable of partaking in those: https://www.altum.lv/en/services/individuals/energy-efficiency-of-private-homes/ https://www.altum.lv/en/services/individuals/energy-efficien... (the Latvian translation has more information https://www-altum-lv.translate.goog/pakalpojumi/iedzivotajiem/privatmaju-energoefektivitate/?_x_tr_sl=lv&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-altum-lv.translate.goog/pakalpojumi/iedzivotajie...) That said, it's probably difficult to undertake something like that, when you're living from paycheck to paycheck.
- jotm 4y ago
  EU food is (was?) flooding markets all around it due to being cheaper and higher quality even after import taxes/customs duty. Should've bought local, but as someone from a poor country neighbouring the EU - fuck that, learn to make quality or you deserve to go under. I'm not paying 2.5x the price for local atrocious quality. And farmers saying lack of rain will ruin them can Google "artificial irrigation" on their gigabit fiber and unlimited 4G. But hey, I guess those new BMWs were worth it.
badpun 4y ago
> Also the amount of LPG redirected from India and Pakistan to Europe will have a huge effect on those countries. India's buying the excess gas from Russia though, so they have access to a seller that Europe won't touch.
- distances 4y ago
  There are currently no European sanctions against Russian gas. Nobody is very happy about it, but Europe would still buy that gas if the pipelines were open.
  - origin_path 4y ago
    Multiple gas pipelines from Russia are closed because European governments refuse to allow them to run. That's gas sanctions, why do you argue otherwise? For example Germany refuses to open Nord Stream 2, and Nord Stream 1 is broken due to sanctions on equipment repair - the turbines are made by Siemens and several are sitting in UK factories unable to be re-exported back due to sanctions. Although the troubles with Nord Stream 1 are well known, the termination of the other pipelines is less well understood. Poland for example closed the Jamal pipeline due to the war in Ukraine: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/poland-terminates-yamal-gas-pipeline-agreement-with-russia https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/poland-terminates-yamal-gas-... We also have to remember that Europe seized Russian euros and broke contracts in other ways, so at this point even if the pipelines were re-opened and the equipment properly repaired, it's not really obvious if Russia would even want to go back to selling to Europe. Unreliable partner after all compared to China, India and elsewhere. Europe is buying their gas anyway due to arbitrage so it looks like a winner for Russia unfortunately.
    - kken 4y ago
      >Nord Stream 1 is broken due to sanctions on equipment repair It's well known that this is not true. You are perpetuating russian propaganda.
      - foverzar 4y ago
baybal2 4y ago

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>Here's what rich countries are doing in general: outbidding pour countries for the limited amount of resources available in the short term. Not just energy, but food, vaccines, medical supplies, consumer products, etc. This has always been the case but now it's at the point where third world countries will probably have major civil unrest and emigration due to the shortages of food and energy they will face from being outbid by Europe and other rich countries during this shortage. Europeans can resort to going on fewer and less expensive vacations to compensate for the increased prices of energy, food, game consoles and GPUs, but I doubt anyone here will actually starve or freeze to death, while that may be an actual reality for some people in some developing nations.

jozvolskyef 4y ago
European != middle class.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  The poor and vulnerable people in places like Austria, France, Germany, Netherlands, etc. receive generous welfare and assistance from the government to not starve and freeze to death. They'll be fine. In Eastern Europe, not so much.
  - jozvolskyef 4y ago
    Are you implying that France, Germany, and Netherlands don't have homeless and elderly people? These two groups are the most at risk of dying form cold. edit: I'm glad that you mention Eastern Europe, which is where I come from. Paradoxically, more people die from cold in the West, because their milder climates don't force them to invest in insulation. edit2: the previous claim may be based on flawed methology, see https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/38/4/806/2966950 https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/38/4/806/2966950
    - trasz 4y ago
      At least here in Cambridge social services literally rent hotel rooms for homeless folks when it gets dangerously cold.
incone123 4y ago
Poor people in Europe already die of cold every winter. The UK especially has a lot of housing in bad condition. Before the pandemic I would regularly see retirement-aged people sitting in the local indoor shopping centre all day in winter.
- distances 4y ago
  Where exactly? At least in Northern Europe it's very rare that even homeless would die of cold, and most of such cases are due to drunkenly passing out in the snow.
xiphias2 4y ago
If you really think that all Europeans are going to vacations and buying game consoles, you havent been to a village in an Eastern-European country yet. I am sure that living from $70/month would be hard for any of us, but some people have to keep their whole family alive from that money, and definately depend on the government this winter. If they freeze, nobody will know about them and they will be just deleted from the statistics. Heres a video of how the poorest part of Hungary looked like a few years ago, and I am sure their life has just gotten much worse since a few years ago: https://youtu.be/FvoTaqutfVk https://youtu.be/FvoTaqutfVk
- Tenoke 4y ago
  I've been to villages in Eastern Europe and wood burning is among the main methods of heating. I'm guessing the price increases of everything else is what's a bigger problem there.
  - KronisLV 4y ago
    > I've been to villages in Eastern Europe and wood burning is among the main methods of heating. I am from Eastern Europe (Latvia) and this does mostly hold true for the countryside: wood burning stoves are common. However, it is likely that inflation and other cost increases will also affect the prices of firewood from here on out, as well as getting it delivered (unless you decided to secure your own, though depending on where/how you do that, the legality might be dubious). From what I know of, most people are noticeably hit by the increase of prices in the stores (as well as a somewhat decreased selection of what's available), in addition to greatly increased electricity prices, which has been a topic that gets brought up often in the news. There aren't that many great solutions for that, to be honest - both diesel generators and solar panels are too expensive for most people, even though there are programs to aid families with purchasing and setting up their own, if they're capable of partaking in those: https://www.altum.lv/en/services/individuals/energy-efficiency-of-private-homes/ https://www.altum.lv/en/services/individuals/energy-efficien... (the Latvian translation has more information https://www-altum-lv.translate.goog/pakalpojumi/iedzivotajiem/privatmaju-energoefektivitate/?_x_tr_sl=lv&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-altum-lv.translate.goog/pakalpojumi/iedzivotajie...) That said, it's probably difficult to undertake something like that, when you're living from paycheck to paycheck.
jotm 4y ago
EU food is (was?) flooding markets all around it due to being cheaper and higher quality even after import taxes/customs duty. Should've bought local, but as someone from a poor country neighbouring the EU - fuck that, learn to make quality or you deserve to go under. I'm not paying 2.5x the price for local atrocious quality. And farmers saying lack of rain will ruin them can Google "artificial irrigation" on their gigabit fiber and unlimited 4G. But hey, I guess those new BMWs were worth it.

badpun 4y ago

> Also the amount of LPG redirected from India and Pakistan to Europe will have a huge effect on those countries. India's buying the excess gas from Russia though, so they have access to a seller that Europe won't touch.

distances 4y ago
There are currently no European sanctions against Russian gas. Nobody is very happy about it, but Europe would still buy that gas if the pipelines were open.
- origin_path 4y ago
  Multiple gas pipelines from Russia are closed because European governments refuse to allow them to run. That's gas sanctions, why do you argue otherwise? For example Germany refuses to open Nord Stream 2, and Nord Stream 1 is broken due to sanctions on equipment repair - the turbines are made by Siemens and several are sitting in UK factories unable to be re-exported back due to sanctions. Although the troubles with Nord Stream 1 are well known, the termination of the other pipelines is less well understood. Poland for example closed the Jamal pipeline due to the war in Ukraine: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/poland-terminates-yamal-gas-pipeline-agreement-with-russia https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/poland-terminates-yamal-gas-... We also have to remember that Europe seized Russian euros and broke contracts in other ways, so at this point even if the pipelines were re-opened and the equipment properly repaired, it's not really obvious if Russia would even want to go back to selling to Europe. Unreliable partner after all compared to China, India and elsewhere. Europe is buying their gas anyway due to arbitrage so it looks like a winner for Russia unfortunately.
  - kken 4y ago
    >Nord Stream 1 is broken due to sanctions on equipment repair It's well known that this is not true. You are perpetuating russian propaganda.
    - foverzar 4y ago

baybal2 4y ago