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People ask me why do soldiers seem to do the opposite - with the bulk of their kit lower down their backs - it’s because if your kit is high up you can’t raise

People ask me why do soldiers seem to do the opposite - with the bulk of their kit lower down their backs - it’s because if your kit is high up you can’t raise your head to look up when you’re lying down. I also think it’s strange to have your heavy kit up high even in a civilian context when you aren’t lying down - you don’t put the heaviest things on a top shelf normally. I tend to put my heaviest stuff supported by my hips, either on belt kit or lower down in my daysack or bergen.

kitd 4y ago
Agreed. Heavy stuff up high has a greater turning couple with any movement of the spine, putting uneven stresses on the back. Heavy stuff around the hips is much better.
- tasuki 4y ago
  Disagreed. As the article stated, heavy stuff around the hips pulls you backwards. You have to lean forward more, and you're less nimble.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
makeitdouble 4y ago
Deuter being an outdoor brand, they probably expect people to be leaning slightly forward when hiking most of the time, and strongly forward in hard slopes. Putting the weight higher balances better under that assumption. It works with messenger bags as well: you'll want them at different positions depending on how hard you're leaning or if you're walking.
adwn 4y ago
> I also think it’s strange to have your heavy kit up high even in a civilian context when you aren’t lying down There's a good reason for this, and it's right there in TFA. > you don’t put the heaviest things on a top shelf normally A backpack is not a shelf, and a person is not a wall.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > There's a good reason for this, and it's right there in TFA. Yeah I know I was offering an opposing opinion to the article. Heavy stuff up top makes you top-heavy, which isn’t good.
  - tasuki 4y ago
    > Heavy stuff up top makes you top-heavy, which isn’t good. Why isn't it good? It does make you less stable, but it makes you nimbler. I think it all depends on the terrain, weight of the backpack, and personal preferences. I've hiked a fair bit and by far prefer heavy stuff up top.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      If it tips in any direction it’s taking your back with it - and potentially your neck if it’s as high as they picture! I regularly run with 30 kg, and fast-walk with 45 kg.
      - tasuki 4y ago
        Well, you have control over the direction it tips. That's the idea behind top heavy being more nimble. That said, you have more experience than me: I don't regularly run with 30kg nor walk with 45kg. I'll try your way one day.
      - sulam 4y ago
        That is a _lot_ of weight to run with, and I don’t think their advice is aimed at or, as you say, relevant to your use case. Speaking as a highly experienced backpacker, with typical loads (10-20% body weight), the point of having weight distributed along your lower and upper back is to conform to the spine and somewhat match our natural weight distribution. Putting weight higher is awful, and putting it lower —- while it lowers your center of gravity — is awful for actually moving down the trail. Even day hike fanny packs with a few liters of water in them are annoying enough that I very often just take my regular pack on day hikes vs putting weight directly around my waist. The issue, just in case it isn’t clear, is that as you move back and forth you’re moving the weight with you. It’s much better for it to be held relatively stable against your back. Finally, I’m trying to work out what you do that you run with 30kg on your back. Trail runners carry significantly less than I do, and even people trying to set through-hike records and who therefore are trail running things like the entire PCT don’t carry anywhere near that weight. Are you in the military? Honestly running with 30kg is pretty damn hard on your body. My knees hurt just imagining it.
sulam 4y ago
Honestly I don’t think Deuter’s advice and yours differ that much. You’re not going to carry weight below your belt line, because if you do you’re wasting energy moving it back and forth as you walk. You’re not going to carry weight above your shoulders, because it’s pretty damn dangerous in anything approaching technical terrain (throws off your center of gravity too much, and risks causing uncontrolled head first falls). So you’re left with how you distribute weight along your back. Deuter’s advice doesn’t distinguish, but the usual thing is heavy, dense things go on the lower back, and as you move up the back you put still-heavy but less dense things, and then lighter but dense, etc. Your sleep system goes at the very bottom, usually in its own compartment, and you put lighter stuff along the outside. This means when you rotate your body, the heavy stuff is close into your center of mass and easily controlled. You reserve the top of the pack for heavily accessed, light stuff. They don’t say this explicitly, but the entire logic of the system revolves around having things that will throw you off your stance as close to your body as possible, so that you remain stable as you move.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > You’re not going to carry weight above your shoulders But that's what their diagram shows?
  - lalopalota 4y ago
    One if the diagrams shows the heaviest weight AT the shoulders, not above.
    - comfypotato 4y ago
      It reads that it should be above the shoulders.

kitd 4y ago

Agreed. Heavy stuff up high has a greater turning couple with any movement of the spine, putting uneven stresses on the back. Heavy stuff around the hips is much better.

tasuki 4y ago
Disagreed. As the article stated, heavy stuff around the hips pulls you backwards. You have to lean forward more, and you're less nimble.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

makeitdouble 4y ago

Deuter being an outdoor brand, they probably expect people to be leaning slightly forward when hiking most of the time, and strongly forward in hard slopes. Putting the weight higher balances better under that assumption. It works with messenger bags as well: you'll want them at different positions depending on how hard you're leaning or if you're walking.

adwn 4y ago

> I also think it’s strange to have your heavy kit up high even in a civilian context when you aren’t lying down There's a good reason for this, and it's right there in TFA. > you don’t put the heaviest things on a top shelf normally A backpack is not a shelf, and a person is not a wall.

chrisseaton 4y ago
> There's a good reason for this, and it's right there in TFA. Yeah I know I was offering an opposing opinion to the article. Heavy stuff up top makes you top-heavy, which isn’t good.
- tasuki 4y ago
  > Heavy stuff up top makes you top-heavy, which isn’t good. Why isn't it good? It does make you less stable, but it makes you nimbler. I think it all depends on the terrain, weight of the backpack, and personal preferences. I've hiked a fair bit and by far prefer heavy stuff up top.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    If it tips in any direction it’s taking your back with it - and potentially your neck if it’s as high as they picture! I regularly run with 30 kg, and fast-walk with 45 kg.
    - tasuki 4y ago
      Well, you have control over the direction it tips. That's the idea behind top heavy being more nimble. That said, you have more experience than me: I don't regularly run with 30kg nor walk with 45kg. I'll try your way one day.
    - sulam 4y ago
      That is a _lot_ of weight to run with, and I don’t think their advice is aimed at or, as you say, relevant to your use case. Speaking as a highly experienced backpacker, with typical loads (10-20% body weight), the point of having weight distributed along your lower and upper back is to conform to the spine and somewhat match our natural weight distribution. Putting weight higher is awful, and putting it lower —- while it lowers your center of gravity — is awful for actually moving down the trail. Even day hike fanny packs with a few liters of water in them are annoying enough that I very often just take my regular pack on day hikes vs putting weight directly around my waist. The issue, just in case it isn’t clear, is that as you move back and forth you’re moving the weight with you. It’s much better for it to be held relatively stable against your back. Finally, I’m trying to work out what you do that you run with 30kg on your back. Trail runners carry significantly less than I do, and even people trying to set through-hike records and who therefore are trail running things like the entire PCT don’t carry anywhere near that weight. Are you in the military? Honestly running with 30kg is pretty damn hard on your body. My knees hurt just imagining it.

sulam 4y ago

Honestly I don’t think Deuter’s advice and yours differ that much. You’re not going to carry weight below your belt line, because if you do you’re wasting energy moving it back and forth as you walk. You’re not going to carry weight above your shoulders, because it’s pretty damn dangerous in anything approaching technical terrain (throws off your center of gravity too much, and risks causing uncontrolled head first falls). So you’re left with how you distribute weight along your back. Deuter’s advice doesn’t distinguish, but the usual thing is heavy, dense things go on the lower back, and as you move up the back you put still-heavy but less dense things, and then lighter but dense, etc. Your sleep system goes at the very bottom, usually in its own compartment, and you put lighter stuff along the outside. This means when you rotate your body, the heavy stuff is close into your center of mass and easily controlled. You reserve the top of the pack for heavily accessed, light stuff. They don’t say this explicitly, but the entire logic of the system revolves around having things that will throw you off your stance as close to your body as possible, so that you remain stable as you move.

chrisseaton 4y ago
> You’re not going to carry weight above your shoulders But that's what their diagram shows?
- lalopalota 4y ago
  One if the diagrams shows the heaviest weight AT the shoulders, not above.
  - comfypotato 4y ago
    It reads that it should be above the shoulders.