5 ms·

What do you propose as an alternative? History both old and new shows how irresponsible corporations across the planet have been

redeeman 4y ago
very true, but corporations tend to not come to your house armed with guns if you dont pay protection money. sure, there have been such, but nobody ever considered them legitimate like people do with "governments"
- dylan604 4y ago
  Have you ever heard of the Pinkertons? There are other corporations in history that had a "security" force of some sort that absolutely was used as a means of intimidation
  - QuarterReptile 4y ago
    Not GP, but yes; are you implying Pinkertons were in the habit of putting private homes under siege? I've never heard about that.
  - redeeman 4y ago
    well yeah, things have happened, but still far from how it currently is in pretty much every country. If I do not consent to rules forced upon me, and stop paying protection money, ultimately government goons with guns are gonna come to haul me away.
- saagarjha 4y ago
  Nobody has to point a gun at you to make your life incredibly miserable.
- sillystuff 4y ago
  The East India Company had its own armies and navy. They subjugated entire nations of people before being incorporated into the British state. In the US, the capitalist mine owners, railroad owners and factory owners all employed paramilitaries to crush worker uprisings-- the tactics often included murder. In the case of Blair mountain, the capitalists' paramilitary forces even used aircraft to drop chemical and explosive bombs (left over from WWI) on striking mine workers. The use of paramilitaries by corporations continues with e.g., Exxon accused of murders of environmental activists in the Niger delta. But, often corporations use state apparatus to affect violence for their advantage-- e.g., the many US illegal wars of aggression / regime change to steal resources of other nations. Or, the domestic use of police to e.g., attack indigenous protesters attempting to block an oil pipeline (Keystone XL) being built across their land against their wishes-- the police fired tear gas, rubber coated steel bullets, and water cannons (in the middle of winter) on the protesters, in service of TC Energy Corporation. Governments engage in violence, but large scale government violence is usually at the behest of the very same rich powerful entities that historically employed their own henchmen or even their own private armies. Small scale government violence may just be sadistic and/or corrupt officials. While this petty violence is terrible for the victims, it is insignificant compared to the large scale violence committed in service of the rich and powerful. The rich don't seem to care if a police department/FBI engages in theft/murder, as long as it doesn't affect them, and state apparatus to inflict violence is simply too useful to the rich to reign it in. Governments are not the problem. The capture of government by the rich and powerful is the problem. Unfortunately, many states seem to have designed their systems to ensure the rich control policy while the masses remain powerless-- the US, where money is speech, is a good example (159 rich people were responsible for 59% of SuperPAC campaign money, and 93% came from 3300 rich people-- they will expect a return on their investment). https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2015/05/disturbing-data-rich-and-powerful-get-their-policies-adopted-even-if-opposed/ https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2015/05/disturbing-d...
FpUser 4y ago
We do not need an alternative. We need independent oversight with broad legal powers when it comes to crimes / misdeeds committed by our "servants".
- kodyo 4y ago
  Having a tyranny-proof government undermines the purpose of government.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    I would sort of agree. It looks like a regular bandits who after undergoing long evolution had came up with this genius idea that maybe getting taxes in the end is more profitable than outright robbery. Bud that ugly muzzle still shows up all the time.

redeeman 4y ago

very true, but corporations tend to not come to your house armed with guns if you dont pay protection money. sure, there have been such, but nobody ever considered them legitimate like people do with "governments"

dylan604 4y ago
Have you ever heard of the Pinkertons? There are other corporations in history that had a "security" force of some sort that absolutely was used as a means of intimidation
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  Not GP, but yes; are you implying Pinkertons were in the habit of putting private homes under siege? I've never heard about that.
- redeeman 4y ago
  well yeah, things have happened, but still far from how it currently is in pretty much every country. If I do not consent to rules forced upon me, and stop paying protection money, ultimately government goons with guns are gonna come to haul me away.
saagarjha 4y ago
Nobody has to point a gun at you to make your life incredibly miserable.
sillystuff 4y ago
The East India Company had its own armies and navy. They subjugated entire nations of people before being incorporated into the British state. In the US, the capitalist mine owners, railroad owners and factory owners all employed paramilitaries to crush worker uprisings-- the tactics often included murder. In the case of Blair mountain, the capitalists' paramilitary forces even used aircraft to drop chemical and explosive bombs (left over from WWI) on striking mine workers. The use of paramilitaries by corporations continues with e.g., Exxon accused of murders of environmental activists in the Niger delta. But, often corporations use state apparatus to affect violence for their advantage-- e.g., the many US illegal wars of aggression / regime change to steal resources of other nations. Or, the domestic use of police to e.g., attack indigenous protesters attempting to block an oil pipeline (Keystone XL) being built across their land against their wishes-- the police fired tear gas, rubber coated steel bullets, and water cannons (in the middle of winter) on the protesters, in service of TC Energy Corporation. Governments engage in violence, but large scale government violence is usually at the behest of the very same rich powerful entities that historically employed their own henchmen or even their own private armies. Small scale government violence may just be sadistic and/or corrupt officials. While this petty violence is terrible for the victims, it is insignificant compared to the large scale violence committed in service of the rich and powerful. The rich don't seem to care if a police department/FBI engages in theft/murder, as long as it doesn't affect them, and state apparatus to inflict violence is simply too useful to the rich to reign it in. Governments are not the problem. The capture of government by the rich and powerful is the problem. Unfortunately, many states seem to have designed their systems to ensure the rich control policy while the masses remain powerless-- the US, where money is speech, is a good example (159 rich people were responsible for 59% of SuperPAC campaign money, and 93% came from 3300 rich people-- they will expect a return on their investment). https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2015/05/disturbing-data-rich-and-powerful-get-their-policies-adopted-even-if-opposed/ https://www.minnpost.com/eric-black-ink/2015/05/disturbing-d...

FpUser 4y ago

We do not need an alternative. We need independent oversight with broad legal powers when it comes to crimes / misdeeds committed by our "servants".

kodyo 4y ago
Having a tyranny-proof government undermines the purpose of government.
- FpUser 4y ago
  I would sort of agree. It looks like a regular bandits who after undergoing long evolution had came up with this genius idea that maybe getting taxes in the end is more profitable than outright robbery. Bud that ugly muzzle still shows up all the time.