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> There is not such thing as hypercarnivore humans that eat only meat and water. Rubbish. I'm not trying to be rude. This is an ignorant idea that needs to sto

> There is not such thing as hypercarnivore humans that eat only meat and water. Rubbish. I'm not trying to be rude. This is an ignorant idea that needs to stop being parroted. Plenty of people can and do subsist on meat and water. Skeletal muscle from cattle alone has everything one needs to thrive. A normal and healthy human can eat nothing but meat (possibly not even water directly) and remain healthy. Go talk to some "carnivores." Yes, there are crazies as there are with every single group of humans, including vegans. You will find that there are individuals who have eaten solely meat for years and have not suffered a single issue that most non-carnivores believe will happen.

pvaldes 4y ago
> Skeletal muscle from cattle alone has everything one needs to thrive. A normal and healthy human can eat nothing but meat and remain healthy. Red meat don't has two essential omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids that we need to survive. If they are frying their meat in vegetable oil to avoid that, sorry, but they aren't eating just meat. They are eating plants also
- Amezarak 4y ago
  I'd be happy to agree that I'm doubtful this is the best way to get your nutrients, but what omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are you talking about? Red meat definitely does contain omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids generally. This is one of the reasons to prefer grass vs grain fed beef - the former has a much better omega-6 to omega-3 ratio.
- netmonk 4y ago
  The error is to consider them as ESSENTIAL. Which obviously they arent.
  - pvaldes 4y ago
    > The error is to consider them as ESSENTIAL. Which obviously they arent. Not, the error is dismissing all proven facts in nutrition and thinking that we know better. When something is called an essential nutrient, we need to include it in our diet if we want to remain alive. Is a simple as this. Lets forget about the special fatty acids that we need and go with an easier example. Your bold claim that "Skeletal muscle from cattle alone has everything one needs to thrive" would led us directly to die by scurvy. Muscle is not a reliable source of ascorbic acid, and we need it to manage correctly our urea metabolism. So we need to add a source of Vitamin C, that comes typically in fruits. Yes, can be found also in liver of some animals, but liver is not skeletal muscle, so your previous claim is incorrect.
    - pvaldes 4y ago
      About the omega-3 and omega-6; a source of fatty acids on this types are needed to avoid: stunted grow damage in the nervous system and mental disease Premature death of cells in chilling weather. Freeze damage. Feminisation in males by absence of testosterone (related with the former point) Being much more prone to die by heart attack Looks pretty serious stuff to me. Even if your diet is based in lard, either you include some omega-3 and omega-6 or you will have fat deficiencies at middle term, and the brain is fat.
    - ravenstine 4y ago
      > Muscle is not a reliable source of ascorbic acid, and we need it to manage correctly our urea metabolism. Let's be clear, firstly... I think we should stick to talking about the skeletal muscle of animals that our ancestors primarily adapted towards, which would be large ruminants (aka red meat with legs). I can't comment on a hypothetical animal that lacks vitamin C in its tissue. What you're saying simply isn't true. There is enough vitamin C in meat, and the idea that you need to eat liver to get enough of any vitamin is largely mythical. But let's stick with vitamin C. The human body needs very little vitamin C, and orders of magnitude less so on a diet of meat. Vitamin C and glucose both depend on the insulin pathway to enter cells, thus they "compete" to do so. With even a modest amount of exogenous carbs, glucose out-competes vitamin C for update because it has a greater affinity for the GLUT-1 receptor. Thus, one would need a lot more vitamin C on such a diet. Without exogenous carbohydrates, skeletal muscle provides plenty of vitamin C. https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(08)00204-3 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(08)00204-3 We all know that hard tack was once a staple on sailing ships, and that those who subsisted on hard tack too long were prone to scurvy. What people either forget or weren't taught is that not all sailors were eating hard tack on any given ship; the captain and his officers were more likely to be eating dried or cured meat, meaning the prevalence of scurvy was far greater among the regular crewmen who were receiving the lesser food. > Your bold claim that "Skeletal muscle from cattle alone has everything one needs to thrive" would led us directly to die by scurvy. Completely false. It takes as little as a month to develop scurvy, yet there are many people who have been eating meat exclusively for years and none of them have scurvy. When should they expect to get scurvy? After a year? 5 years? 10 years? I myself have experience with this and, well, it's been far, far longer than a month... still no scurvy. I don't eat liver. Never have and have no desire to start doing so. > Muscle is not a reliable source of ascorbic acid Again, not correct. A meat based diet requires substantially less vitamin C. > So we need to add a source of Vitamin C, that comes typically in fruits. No, you don't need to add fruit if you're eating a diet solely of meat. > Yes, can be found also in liver of some animals Yet many carnivorous animals, including humans historically, don't bother with the liver under most circumstances. Liver can have benefits, but eating liver too often or in too great a quantity can lead to types of poisoning and electrolyte imbalance. > but liver is not skeletal muscle, so your previous claim is incorrect. Yeah, it's not, which is why carnivorous animals consume mostly skeletal muscle and don't just eat the liver, despite how some think that liver is a cornucopia of health. Liver is not a cure for anything, except perhaps carbohydrate-induced scurvy. > so your previous claim is incorrect. Not really. It's quite correct. You really should reevaluate your view of vitamin C in the human diet.
loonster 4y ago
The first name that comes to mind is Owsley Stanley, the sound system guy for the Grateful Dead. He was a carnivore eater for 50 years.

pvaldes 4y ago

> Skeletal muscle from cattle alone has everything one needs to thrive. A normal and healthy human can eat nothing but meat and remain healthy. Red meat don't has two essential omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids that we need to survive. If they are frying their meat in vegetable oil to avoid that, sorry, but they aren't eating just meat. They are eating plants also

Amezarak 4y ago
I'd be happy to agree that I'm doubtful this is the best way to get your nutrients, but what omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are you talking about? Red meat definitely does contain omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids generally. This is one of the reasons to prefer grass vs grain fed beef - the former has a much better omega-6 to omega-3 ratio.
netmonk 4y ago
The error is to consider them as ESSENTIAL. Which obviously they arent.
- pvaldes 4y ago
  > The error is to consider them as ESSENTIAL. Which obviously they arent. Not, the error is dismissing all proven facts in nutrition and thinking that we know better. When something is called an essential nutrient, we need to include it in our diet if we want to remain alive. Is a simple as this. Lets forget about the special fatty acids that we need and go with an easier example. Your bold claim that "Skeletal muscle from cattle alone has everything one needs to thrive" would led us directly to die by scurvy. Muscle is not a reliable source of ascorbic acid, and we need it to manage correctly our urea metabolism. So we need to add a source of Vitamin C, that comes typically in fruits. Yes, can be found also in liver of some animals, but liver is not skeletal muscle, so your previous claim is incorrect.
  - pvaldes 4y ago
    About the omega-3 and omega-6; a source of fatty acids on this types are needed to avoid: stunted grow damage in the nervous system and mental disease Premature death of cells in chilling weather. Freeze damage. Feminisation in males by absence of testosterone (related with the former point) Being much more prone to die by heart attack Looks pretty serious stuff to me. Even if your diet is based in lard, either you include some omega-3 and omega-6 or you will have fat deficiencies at middle term, and the brain is fat.
  - ravenstine 4y ago
    > Muscle is not a reliable source of ascorbic acid, and we need it to manage correctly our urea metabolism. Let's be clear, firstly... I think we should stick to talking about the skeletal muscle of animals that our ancestors primarily adapted towards, which would be large ruminants (aka red meat with legs). I can't comment on a hypothetical animal that lacks vitamin C in its tissue. What you're saying simply isn't true. There is enough vitamin C in meat, and the idea that you need to eat liver to get enough of any vitamin is largely mythical. But let's stick with vitamin C. The human body needs very little vitamin C, and orders of magnitude less so on a diet of meat. Vitamin C and glucose both depend on the insulin pathway to enter cells, thus they "compete" to do so. With even a modest amount of exogenous carbs, glucose out-competes vitamin C for update because it has a greater affinity for the GLUT-1 receptor. Thus, one would need a lot more vitamin C on such a diet. Without exogenous carbohydrates, skeletal muscle provides plenty of vitamin C. https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(08)00204-3 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(08)00204-3 We all know that hard tack was once a staple on sailing ships, and that those who subsisted on hard tack too long were prone to scurvy. What people either forget or weren't taught is that not all sailors were eating hard tack on any given ship; the captain and his officers were more likely to be eating dried or cured meat, meaning the prevalence of scurvy was far greater among the regular crewmen who were receiving the lesser food. > Your bold claim that "Skeletal muscle from cattle alone has everything one needs to thrive" would led us directly to die by scurvy. Completely false. It takes as little as a month to develop scurvy, yet there are many people who have been eating meat exclusively for years and none of them have scurvy. When should they expect to get scurvy? After a year? 5 years? 10 years? I myself have experience with this and, well, it's been far, far longer than a month... still no scurvy. I don't eat liver. Never have and have no desire to start doing so. > Muscle is not a reliable source of ascorbic acid Again, not correct. A meat based diet requires substantially less vitamin C. > So we need to add a source of Vitamin C, that comes typically in fruits. No, you don't need to add fruit if you're eating a diet solely of meat. > Yes, can be found also in liver of some animals Yet many carnivorous animals, including humans historically, don't bother with the liver under most circumstances. Liver can have benefits, but eating liver too often or in too great a quantity can lead to types of poisoning and electrolyte imbalance. > but liver is not skeletal muscle, so your previous claim is incorrect. Yeah, it's not, which is why carnivorous animals consume mostly skeletal muscle and don't just eat the liver, despite how some think that liver is a cornucopia of health. Liver is not a cure for anything, except perhaps carbohydrate-induced scurvy. > so your previous claim is incorrect. Not really. It's quite correct. You really should reevaluate your view of vitamin C in the human diet.

loonster 4y ago

The first name that comes to mind is Owsley Stanley, the sound system guy for the Grateful Dead. He was a carnivore eater for 50 years.