5 ms·

Scratch Cyborgs: The Hip-Hop DJ as Technology

29 points by tintinnabula 4y ago

PopAlongKid 4y ago
>Meteor Light & Sound’s Clubman line Nice to see a shout-out for that, I spent a lot of money on one once, got good use out of it. (I was not a hip hop DJ)
jrm4 4y ago
Nice perspective. As both a hip-hop fan and a tech guy, I can't help but think about how relatively stagnant and perhaps even backwards many human interfaces have become. Specifically, I'm thinking of the touchscreens in e.g. Teslas. Obviously we've advanced in voice interfaces and perhaps may not have much of a "need" for innovation in the "physical?" Not sure.
djyaz1200 4y ago
The movie Scratch is a fun and fascinating journey through the rise of Hip Hop DJ's, available free here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOUYOg-dAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOUYOg-dAM As a former professional DJ turned tech startup CEO I believe this article is very accurate and the author well researched. I'm troubled that the next generation of DJ has their hands tied by terrible tech and onerous licensing restrictions rolled together. Tools like Apple Music and Spotify encourage users to just consume music one slice at a time from start to finish which is boring. It also caters more to the commercial interests of the labels than the listeners. Imagine for example if you couldn't mix your food together, only one product at a time. That's the current state of music without immense ongoing effort on the part of users to convert their music into DRM free and seek out complicated and/or expensive DJ tools. DJ's should be able to access all available music and monetize their art by sampling whatever they want from any artist as long as that artist gets paid for the full "spin" of the song even if there is just a one second sample. If you want to hear what music can be like when licensing restrictions are flagrantly ignored you might enjoy... "Girl Talk" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWzkK7tUjaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWzkK7tUjaU "2 many DJ's, Hang the DJ" https://www.mixcloud.com/2manybootlegs/2manydjs-hang-the-dj-1/ https://www.mixcloud.com/2manybootlegs/2manydjs-hang-the-dj-...
- jrm4 4y ago
  100% on the restrictions. The thing is, I have zero optimism for an "acceptable" solution, especially given that -- big winners in the space of "using other peoples content" have NEVER followed the law. It just doesn't happen. Along with all the great freely-sampling records of the past, Google, Youtube, and lately Github Copilot and the DALL-Es all have/had in common that they essentially disregarded copyright law in the beginning and just created. Some might say "flagrantly stole." It's odd because as a lawyer I should have a solution. But I'm starting to think there is no good, "legally acceptable" one -- if the goal really is innovation and creativity.
  - djyaz1200 4y ago
    Wouldn't it work if there was a cypto stake based (to restrict co2 impact) token priced at a fraction of a penny that users could pay with each time they spun a record licensed by anyone. No more backroom deals to beg a label to let you remix their catalog, you just do it and if it's a hit they make tons of money. That might not exactly be it but I think a technical payment/usage standard open to all is directionally the right way to let the new artists play/create.
    - jrm4 4y ago
      I like micropayment ideas like this, but I just don't see them happening, not until we fix the below problem. I think the issue isn't "we don't have the technology to pay creators," I think it's always "greedy middlemen suck." They've never been more useless than today, and yet they're still so very powerful here. We just sort of assume their necessity and existence.
- spicyjpeg 4y ago
  I feel like we are close to the endgame. Sure, learning to DJ and even buying DRM-free music is easier than ever in 2022, but actually performing as a DJ? Have fun dealing with licensing. The labels have been enjoying this transition from music as part of a huge remix culture to music as a strictly personal medium of entertainment, as something you passively listen to exactly as Spotify wants and occasionally embed as-is into your 10 second TikTok video. Discovery now happens primarily through personalized algorithmic "radios" (read: echo chambers), along with the occasional excessively overhyped 80s song artificially brought back by being featured in an episode of a Netflix series. The equipment used for listening of course followed this trend, with horrible-sounding-but-convenient true wireless earbuds and portable speakers becoming ubiquitous and displacing pretty much everything else in sales numbers. Where did all the creativity go? Some of the more niche platforms like SoundCloud are absolutely full of highly illegal mixes and mashups waiting to be taken down... but I haven't yet seen anybody seriously considering listening to SoundCloud daily instead of just consuming Spotify's prepackaged playlists. Even piracy doesn't seem to care; just go to TPB and see how large its repertoire of DJ mixes, EDM or non-mainstream hip hop is (hint: not very large). And let's not even talk about the minefield of doing anything related to music on YouTube. Remix culture is not yet fully dead, but it might as well be.

29 points by tintinnabula 4y ago

>Meteor Light & Sound’s Clubman line Nice to see a shout-out for that, I spent a lot of money on one once, got good use out of it. (I was not a hip hop DJ)

jrm4 4y ago

Nice perspective. As both a hip-hop fan and a tech guy, I can't help but think about how relatively stagnant and perhaps even backwards many human interfaces have become. Specifically, I'm thinking of the touchscreens in e.g. Teslas. Obviously we've advanced in voice interfaces and perhaps may not have much of a "need" for innovation in the "physical?" Not sure.

djyaz1200 4y ago

The movie Scratch is a fun and fascinating journey through the rise of Hip Hop DJ's, available free here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOUYOg-dAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcOUYOg-dAM As a former professional DJ turned tech startup CEO I believe this article is very accurate and the author well researched. I'm troubled that the next generation of DJ has their hands tied by terrible tech and onerous licensing restrictions rolled together. Tools like Apple Music and Spotify encourage users to just consume music one slice at a time from start to finish which is boring. It also caters more to the commercial interests of the labels than the listeners. Imagine for example if you couldn't mix your food together, only one product at a time. That's the current state of music without immense ongoing effort on the part of users to convert their music into DRM free and seek out complicated and/or expensive DJ tools. DJ's should be able to access all available music and monetize their art by sampling whatever they want from any artist as long as that artist gets paid for the full "spin" of the song even if there is just a one second sample. If you want to hear what music can be like when licensing restrictions are flagrantly ignored you might enjoy... "Girl Talk" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWzkK7tUjaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWzkK7tUjaU "2 many DJ's, Hang the DJ" https://www.mixcloud.com/2manybootlegs/2manydjs-hang-the-dj-1/ https://www.mixcloud.com/2manybootlegs/2manydjs-hang-the-dj-...

jrm4 4y ago
100% on the restrictions. The thing is, I have zero optimism for an "acceptable" solution, especially given that -- big winners in the space of "using other peoples content" have NEVER followed the law. It just doesn't happen. Along with all the great freely-sampling records of the past, Google, Youtube, and lately Github Copilot and the DALL-Es all have/had in common that they essentially disregarded copyright law in the beginning and just created. Some might say "flagrantly stole." It's odd because as a lawyer I should have a solution. But I'm starting to think there is no good, "legally acceptable" one -- if the goal really is innovation and creativity.
- djyaz1200 4y ago
  Wouldn't it work if there was a cypto stake based (to restrict co2 impact) token priced at a fraction of a penny that users could pay with each time they spun a record licensed by anyone. No more backroom deals to beg a label to let you remix their catalog, you just do it and if it's a hit they make tons of money. That might not exactly be it but I think a technical payment/usage standard open to all is directionally the right way to let the new artists play/create.
  - jrm4 4y ago
    I like micropayment ideas like this, but I just don't see them happening, not until we fix the below problem. I think the issue isn't "we don't have the technology to pay creators," I think it's always "greedy middlemen suck." They've never been more useless than today, and yet they're still so very powerful here. We just sort of assume their necessity and existence.
spicyjpeg 4y ago
I feel like we are close to the endgame. Sure, learning to DJ and even buying DRM-free music is easier than ever in 2022, but actually performing as a DJ? Have fun dealing with licensing. The labels have been enjoying this transition from music as part of a huge remix culture to music as a strictly personal medium of entertainment, as something you passively listen to exactly as Spotify wants and occasionally embed as-is into your 10 second TikTok video. Discovery now happens primarily through personalized algorithmic "radios" (read: echo chambers), along with the occasional excessively overhyped 80s song artificially brought back by being featured in an episode of a Netflix series. The equipment used for listening of course followed this trend, with horrible-sounding-but-convenient true wireless earbuds and portable speakers becoming ubiquitous and displacing pretty much everything else in sales numbers. Where did all the creativity go? Some of the more niche platforms like SoundCloud are absolutely full of highly illegal mixes and mashups waiting to be taken down... but I haven't yet seen anybody seriously considering listening to SoundCloud daily instead of just consuming Spotify's prepackaged playlists. Even piracy doesn't seem to care; just go to TPB and see how large its repertoire of DJ mixes, EDM or non-mainstream hip hop is (hint: not very large). And let's not even talk about the minefield of doing anything related to music on YouTube. Remix culture is not yet fully dead, but it might as well be.