4 ms·

yep, toothache would make you sign anything on the spot (met the situation several years ago, though it wasn't copyright agreement situation).

cperciva 15y ago
I'm surprised that they didn't include a motion to declare the contract invalid on the grounds of duress. I'm not aware of any precedent for a threat to withhold medical care being considered duress, but it certainly seems to satisfy the "no true meeting of the minds" test. (IANAL, etc.)
- hermannj314 15y ago
  Is that harder to prove in a class-action suit? Unconscionability is probably an easier road than duress. I am neither a lawyer nor a dentist.
- VladRussian 15y ago
  >I'm surprised that they didn't include a motion to declare the contract invalid on the grounds of duress. success of such motion would destroy all the "pay for the service" system as you do agree to pay for the service before it is rendered - otherwise the doctor willn't provide the service. To my understanding the ER is the only place where medical care muct be rendered without any pre-condition of entering into any contract.
  - cperciva 15y ago
    Not necessarily. In most circumstances there's no duress since a patient can visit a different physician. The case of someone who is in severe pain, has already waited 3 days, and has every reason to think that he might need to wait another 3 days if he opts to see a different physician is an exceptional one. (And even in the absence of a contract, there's a quasi-contract, so a finding of duress wouldn't obviate the requirement to pay for services rendered.)
  - electromagnetic 15y ago
    It also depends on the definition of duress. Is it how much pain the person is in (which is a psychological perception), or how life-threatening their condition is. This guy had a severe tooth ache and I can't really gather much more FTA for what he actually had. However, there's cracked teeth and abscesses that dentists see frequently that are expected to be much more painful. I personally just don't feel dental pain, so what are the grounds for duress with me. I found out I'd had 5 cavities, potentially for over a year (it had been around 2 years since my last dental visit because of moving country and having no benefit plan) and I had no clue.
- CodeMage 15y ago
  IANAL either, but I'm guessing that winning this class-action suit would set a more useful precedent. If I'm reading the situation correctly, Lee would like to stop dentists from (ab)using this kind of gag agreement.

cperciva 15y ago

I'm surprised that they didn't include a motion to declare the contract invalid on the grounds of duress. I'm not aware of any precedent for a threat to withhold medical care being considered duress, but it certainly seems to satisfy the "no true meeting of the minds" test. (IANAL, etc.)

hermannj314 15y ago
Is that harder to prove in a class-action suit? Unconscionability is probably an easier road than duress. I am neither a lawyer nor a dentist.
VladRussian 15y ago
>I'm surprised that they didn't include a motion to declare the contract invalid on the grounds of duress. success of such motion would destroy all the "pay for the service" system as you do agree to pay for the service before it is rendered - otherwise the doctor willn't provide the service. To my understanding the ER is the only place where medical care muct be rendered without any pre-condition of entering into any contract.
- cperciva 15y ago
  Not necessarily. In most circumstances there's no duress since a patient can visit a different physician. The case of someone who is in severe pain, has already waited 3 days, and has every reason to think that he might need to wait another 3 days if he opts to see a different physician is an exceptional one. (And even in the absence of a contract, there's a quasi-contract, so a finding of duress wouldn't obviate the requirement to pay for services rendered.)
- electromagnetic 15y ago
  It also depends on the definition of duress. Is it how much pain the person is in (which is a psychological perception), or how life-threatening their condition is. This guy had a severe tooth ache and I can't really gather much more FTA for what he actually had. However, there's cracked teeth and abscesses that dentists see frequently that are expected to be much more painful. I personally just don't feel dental pain, so what are the grounds for duress with me. I found out I'd had 5 cavities, potentially for over a year (it had been around 2 years since my last dental visit because of moving country and having no benefit plan) and I had no clue.
CodeMage 15y ago
IANAL either, but I'm guessing that winning this class-action suit would set a more useful precedent. If I'm reading the situation correctly, Lee would like to stop dentists from (ab)using this kind of gag agreement.