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This is such an American problem. I love visiting the US, but boy am I glad that I don't live there. Everyone here in the comments is blaming Hertz, but really

This is such an American problem. I love visiting the US, but boy am I glad that I don't live there. Everyone here in the comments is blaming Hertz, but really the problem is that the police are just arresting people willy-nilly without actually confirming the vehicle in question is really stolen. And even if they do stop to question someone, why are they pulling a gun on them, or even taking them back to the station before trying to de-escalate the situation? This story just reeks of a series of serious societal failures. Staff on minimum wage, dated systems and processes, overzealous police, insane court system (did you read the comments in that linked article? One poor man had to pay bail at 45k, lost his job, and a bunch of other fines!) I just couldn't imagine any one of these things happening where I am from in Europe.

mef 4y ago
When the police see a car and run the plate and it comes back stolen, how should they “confirm the car is really stolen”?
- rdlw 4y ago
  They should probably confirm the car is stolen when they mark it as stolen.
- trasz 4y ago
  A responsible course of action, given Hertz history of false accusations, would be to ignore “stolen” cars that belong to Hertz. It’s a lesser evil - even if it actually got stolen nothing bad will happen, Hertz is a wealthy company.
- wsh 4y ago
  The usual procedure is for the police dispatcher to check with the law enforcement agency that entered the license plate into the database. In case of a rental car, a call to the local or corporate office of the rental company would also be appropriate, all the more so now that there’s wide publicity about the problem of false or out-of-date theft reports.
  - Aloha 4y ago
    Yes, and calling Hertz would confirm the report that the car was stolen, because its Hertz calling the police in the first place.
    - wsh 4y ago
      In some cases, that might’ve been true, but in others, I expect Hertz, when confronted with a rental agreement number, vehicle number, and customer’s name, would have been able to confirm that the agreement was current and valid, making it obvious that the theft report was mistaken or outdated.
      - Aloha 4y ago
        I normally rent from National/Enterprise, and I cant tell you the last time I got a printed rental agreement. As they say, its all in the app these days.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  For this purpose, they do not need to. if( car_theft->reporting_party == Hertz ) car_theft->credibility = Probable_Clerical_Error;
- ransom1538 4y ago
  Police generally hate stolen car license plates. This means things are about to get serious. Most police departments wont even attempt a pull over with just one unit. But most scary for the cop they have no idea who this person is. In the US you want to take stolen cars seriously [guns out]: https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEB&search_query=police+killed+during+stolen+car https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEB&search_query=police+...
- YeBanKo 4y ago
  It can be as simple checking the registered owner of the car(Hertz), then checking the paperwork the renter has on hands and that should lower the suspicion and go from there.
akira2501 4y ago
The police aren't there to sort out paperwork issues. They aren't qualified for it. They're qualified to bring you to jail to await a bail hearing while they write a report about the incident. The rightful owner of the vehicle reported it stolen, there's not much else to do then clear yourself criminally and then restore yourself civilly. That's not to say that the arrest and bail processes don't need a lot of work, but I'm not sure there's a better structural alternative. Also, in the case of the individual with high bail, I can't find a reference to that particular case. Do you have one?
- wsh 4y ago
  I’d respectfully disagree. The courts have the last word, of course, but we don’t expect police officers to be unthinking automatons. “Round ’em all up and let the judge sort it out” doesn’t square with the Fourth Amendment. A theft report isn’t a warrant. It might give an officer reasonable suspicion to stop the reported vehicle and detain its driver briefly to investigate, but to make an arrest, a higher standard must be met: the officer needs probable cause that the suspect has committed a crime. If the driver claims to have rented the vehicle, I’d expect an officer at least to try to contact the rental car company to confirm the situation, or to ask his or her dispatcher to do so, especially now that the problem of false reports has become widely known.
  - akira2501 4y ago
    > “Round ’em all up and let the judge sort it out” doesn’t square with the Fourth Amendment. Why wouldn't it? The fourth amendment covers _unreasonable_ seizure. > but to make an arrest, a higher standard must be met: the officer needs probable cause that the suspect has committed a crime. The vehicle is reported stolen. You are found in possession of it. That's probable cause. > I’d expect an officer at least to try to contact the rental car company to confirm the situation How do you propose they do that? Check the paperwork? How do they know it's accurate and not forged? How do they know they've reached the appropriate agency? How do they know if the person they're contacting through the paperwork would have any authority of the reporting of the vehicles status? You're expecting a lot to be available to an officer that just isn't. The best they could do is directly call the reporting party back and tell them that this person claims it isn't stolen and is a mistake on their end.. and if they say "it's not a mistake, it's definitely stolen?" The police should do what at that point? This is why we have courts with evidentiary standards and formal procedures that are defined in law. You cannot expect an officer in the field to be capable of maintaining those same standards.

mef 4y ago

When the police see a car and run the plate and it comes back stolen, how should they “confirm the car is really stolen”?

rdlw 4y ago
They should probably confirm the car is stolen when they mark it as stolen.
trasz 4y ago
A responsible course of action, given Hertz history of false accusations, would be to ignore “stolen” cars that belong to Hertz. It’s a lesser evil - even if it actually got stolen nothing bad will happen, Hertz is a wealthy company.
wsh 4y ago
The usual procedure is for the police dispatcher to check with the law enforcement agency that entered the license plate into the database. In case of a rental car, a call to the local or corporate office of the rental company would also be appropriate, all the more so now that there’s wide publicity about the problem of false or out-of-date theft reports.
- Aloha 4y ago
  Yes, and calling Hertz would confirm the report that the car was stolen, because its Hertz calling the police in the first place.
  - wsh 4y ago
    In some cases, that might’ve been true, but in others, I expect Hertz, when confronted with a rental agreement number, vehicle number, and customer’s name, would have been able to confirm that the agreement was current and valid, making it obvious that the theft report was mistaken or outdated.
    - Aloha 4y ago
      I normally rent from National/Enterprise, and I cant tell you the last time I got a printed rental agreement. As they say, its all in the app these days.
bell-cot 4y ago
For this purpose, they do not need to. if( car_theft->reporting_party == Hertz ) car_theft->credibility = Probable_Clerical_Error;
ransom1538 4y ago
Police generally hate stolen car license plates. This means things are about to get serious. Most police departments wont even attempt a pull over with just one unit. But most scary for the cop they have no idea who this person is. In the US you want to take stolen cars seriously [guns out]: https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEB&search_query=police+killed+during+stolen+car https://www.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEB&search_query=police+...
YeBanKo 4y ago
It can be as simple checking the registered owner of the car(Hertz), then checking the paperwork the renter has on hands and that should lower the suspicion and go from there.

akira2501 4y ago

The police aren't there to sort out paperwork issues. They aren't qualified for it. They're qualified to bring you to jail to await a bail hearing while they write a report about the incident. The rightful owner of the vehicle reported it stolen, there's not much else to do then clear yourself criminally and then restore yourself civilly. That's not to say that the arrest and bail processes don't need a lot of work, but I'm not sure there's a better structural alternative. Also, in the case of the individual with high bail, I can't find a reference to that particular case. Do you have one?

wsh 4y ago
I’d respectfully disagree. The courts have the last word, of course, but we don’t expect police officers to be unthinking automatons. “Round ’em all up and let the judge sort it out” doesn’t square with the Fourth Amendment. A theft report isn’t a warrant. It might give an officer reasonable suspicion to stop the reported vehicle and detain its driver briefly to investigate, but to make an arrest, a higher standard must be met: the officer needs probable cause that the suspect has committed a crime. If the driver claims to have rented the vehicle, I’d expect an officer at least to try to contact the rental car company to confirm the situation, or to ask his or her dispatcher to do so, especially now that the problem of false reports has become widely known.
- akira2501 4y ago
  > “Round ’em all up and let the judge sort it out” doesn’t square with the Fourth Amendment. Why wouldn't it? The fourth amendment covers _unreasonable_ seizure. > but to make an arrest, a higher standard must be met: the officer needs probable cause that the suspect has committed a crime. The vehicle is reported stolen. You are found in possession of it. That's probable cause. > I’d expect an officer at least to try to contact the rental car company to confirm the situation How do you propose they do that? Check the paperwork? How do they know it's accurate and not forged? How do they know they've reached the appropriate agency? How do they know if the person they're contacting through the paperwork would have any authority of the reporting of the vehicles status? You're expecting a lot to be available to an officer that just isn't. The best they could do is directly call the reporting party back and tell them that this person claims it isn't stolen and is a mistake on their end.. and if they say "it's not a mistake, it's definitely stolen?" The police should do what at that point? This is why we have courts with evidentiary standards and formal procedures that are defined in law. You cannot expect an officer in the field to be capable of maintaining those same standards.