11 ms·

Silicon Valley slips back to Bro culture

22 points by mathattack 4y ago

mathattack 4y ago
https://archive.ph/Wufkb https://archive.ph/Wufkb
givemeethekeys 4y ago
At this point I don't expect anything good from the New York Times.
- walrus01 4y ago
  - coldtea 4y ago
    - walrus01 4y ago
      You assume everyone who dislikes Thiel and his ilk is a "dem", and no, I'd dislike them the same way I have a strong distaste for both Cuomos.
      - coldtea 4y ago
        >You assume everyone who dislikes Thiel and his ilk is a "dem" No, just most. Especially if Joe Rogan is added to the list, then 60% of the time is all about cultural politics every time
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    Does anyone actual think either of them as role models? Apart from maybe having successful careers in respective fields and how to attain that?
  - humen99 4y ago
    At this point I don't expect anything good from people who care about Joe Rogan or Peter Thiel in any regard.
- TigeriusKirk 4y ago
  Every time there's a piece critical on tech from a news site, I remind myself that the news media holds a gigantic grudge against tech for taking away their audiences and their profits. It's a valid grudge, but it of course colors everything they write about tech.
  - greendude29 4y ago
    Do you really think the media industry behaves a single entity and churns out pieces because the entity as a whole is jealous of tech? I don't care about the NYT, but do you really see andreessen horowitz, elon musks and the likes as anything more than shysters?
swivelmaster 4y ago
I think the article makes a valid point in kind of a silly way, which is to hold up five or six of the absolute worst outliers of the industry to make a point about inequality. Are they a useful reference point to represent the problem? Yes, but that should have segued the article deeper into the weeds of why this is happening and how it can be fixed. There's an implication that some massive sea change might have been expected following #metoo, but I suspect the reality is that what we're going to get instead is slow, forward-moving progress towards diversity - so let's talk about it in realistic terms and figure out how to make it go faster instead of focusing on the outliers, expecting a miracle, and then acting like no progress has been made just because there was no Thanos Snap-level equalization event.
- tarakat 4y ago
  > let's talk about it in realistic terms and figure out how to make it go faster instead of focusing on the outliers The media's power lies in focusing on (emotionally charged) outliers. That and wordplay (e.g. a NYT article said "whites and Asians dominate" some top-ranked schools, when whites alone were in fact underrepresented [1]). Asking them to stop is asking the king to give up his crown. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/nyregion/high-school-admissions-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/nyregion/high-school-admi...
- mathattack 4y ago
  Stories sell better than data. If you pitch a software deal with “Look at company X eating the lunch of company Y, who chose someone else” you will sell more than “We see a 12% profitability increase with a 73% confidence level” Same with news.
jdmg94 4y ago
It has always been a Frat, more was spent on marketing tech as a diverse environment than actually hiring people from different backgrounds, ethnicities, cultures.
totallyblasted 4y ago
I want Silicon Valley to produce quality products and innovation. I don't care what culture it has as long as it respects the Constitution and the laws of the land and everyone gets a fair chance on the basis of the work they actually produce. NY Times has declined big time in recent years.
- coldtea 4y ago
  NYT has slipped into outrage culture
  - nomdep 4y ago
    Since 2016…. But I don’t think it’s profitable anymore
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    I'd say not just NYT but journalism and culture as a whole has.
- swivelmaster 4y ago
  "everyone gets a fair chance on the basis of the work they actually produce" This is already not the case and the article very clearly highlights this, if you had bothered to read it.
- jdmg94 4y ago
  Except you didn't even read the article. We cannot expect innovation by giving Adam Neuman (Who burned billions in VC funding on WeWork) another billion dollars for a second chance. This is also against the 14th Amendment but of course if it doesn't affect you then you won't give a fuck
  - bsder 4y ago
    Sure, the public doesn't benefit, but why wouldn't Andressen fund Neuman? Neuman produced a cult that generated a beautiful pyramid scheme for those who got out early. From a VC point of view, the only issue was that VC's didn't have enough of a collar on Neuman to be able to shove him aside when he became a liability. I'm sure that mistake has been corrected. Anyone who thinks VCs are anything other than self-interested sociopaths hasn't been paying attention.
goldenchrome 4y ago
I still don’t know what “bro culture” is. At one time I thought it meant fraternity bros, as in the WASPy “my dad is a lawyer, let’s get blackout drunk” kind of bro. But in the last few years I’ve seen it associated with Silicon Valley, a place filled with engineers who worked themselves to the bone for huge paydays. To me the two groups are on opposite sides of the spectrum. Jocks vs nerds. The only thing I see in common between the two groups is that they’re both groups of ambitious men, with a chip on their shoulder of unknown size. Whenever I see these articles they read to me like “look over there, the men are making noise again”. Yeah, that’s what men do. Has anyone considered the fact that there are far fewer powerful women because women aren’t generally interested in working 80 hours a week?
- ShamelessC 4y ago
  It’s the size of the “chip on their shoulder” and the transition from people who care about tech (and money) to people who care about money (and tech). There’s a reason the frat bro tends to become a successful salesman or something in the stereotype. It’s not because they are passionate about sales. > Has anyone considered the fact that there are far fewer powerful women because women aren’t generally interested in working 80 hours a week You know, I don’t think this is really even related at all and ignores a great deal of nuance to the point of sounding pretty tone-deaf.
- md2020 4y ago
  Tbh I think this is just the classic situation of “elite” humanities people dunking on “elite” nerds. I’ve had the same experience of having no idea what the actual definition of “bro” is, and I’ve decided that it sounds made up simply because it is. “Those people who think differently than I do and also make a lot of money in their jobs? Must be something bad about them. Bros.”
- patrick451 4y ago
  It's a continuous stream of baseless, chiding articles like this that have tanked the NYT's credibility. If you really think tech firms have a Bro Culture, you've either never met a Bro or have no idea what tech culture is like.
Proven 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

22 points by mathattack 4y ago

mathattack 4y ago

https://archive.ph/Wufkb https://archive.ph/Wufkb

givemeethekeys 4y ago

At this point I don't expect anything good from the New York Times.

walrus01 4y ago
- coldtea 4y ago
  - walrus01 4y ago
    You assume everyone who dislikes Thiel and his ilk is a "dem", and no, I'd dislike them the same way I have a strong distaste for both Cuomos.
    - coldtea 4y ago
      >You assume everyone who dislikes Thiel and his ilk is a "dem" No, just most. Especially if Joe Rogan is added to the list, then 60% of the time is all about cultural politics every time
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Does anyone actual think either of them as role models? Apart from maybe having successful careers in respective fields and how to attain that?
- humen99 4y ago
  At this point I don't expect anything good from people who care about Joe Rogan or Peter Thiel in any regard.
TigeriusKirk 4y ago
Every time there's a piece critical on tech from a news site, I remind myself that the news media holds a gigantic grudge against tech for taking away their audiences and their profits. It's a valid grudge, but it of course colors everything they write about tech.
- greendude29 4y ago
  Do you really think the media industry behaves a single entity and churns out pieces because the entity as a whole is jealous of tech? I don't care about the NYT, but do you really see andreessen horowitz, elon musks and the likes as anything more than shysters?

swivelmaster 4y ago

I think the article makes a valid point in kind of a silly way, which is to hold up five or six of the absolute worst outliers of the industry to make a point about inequality. Are they a useful reference point to represent the problem? Yes, but that should have segued the article deeper into the weeds of why this is happening and how it can be fixed. There's an implication that some massive sea change might have been expected following #metoo, but I suspect the reality is that what we're going to get instead is slow, forward-moving progress towards diversity - so let's talk about it in realistic terms and figure out how to make it go faster instead of focusing on the outliers, expecting a miracle, and then acting like no progress has been made just because there was no Thanos Snap-level equalization event.

tarakat 4y ago
> let's talk about it in realistic terms and figure out how to make it go faster instead of focusing on the outliers The media's power lies in focusing on (emotionally charged) outliers. That and wordplay (e.g. a NYT article said "whites and Asians dominate" some top-ranked schools, when whites alone were in fact underrepresented [1]). Asking them to stop is asking the king to give up his crown. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/nyregion/high-school-admissions-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/17/nyregion/high-school-admi...
mathattack 4y ago
Stories sell better than data. If you pitch a software deal with “Look at company X eating the lunch of company Y, who chose someone else” you will sell more than “We see a 12% profitability increase with a 73% confidence level” Same with news.

jdmg94 4y ago

It has always been a Frat, more was spent on marketing tech as a diverse environment than actually hiring people from different backgrounds, ethnicities, cultures.

totallyblasted 4y ago

I want Silicon Valley to produce quality products and innovation. I don't care what culture it has as long as it respects the Constitution and the laws of the land and everyone gets a fair chance on the basis of the work they actually produce. NY Times has declined big time in recent years.

coldtea 4y ago
NYT has slipped into outrage culture
- nomdep 4y ago
  Since 2016…. But I don’t think it’s profitable anymore
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  I'd say not just NYT but journalism and culture as a whole has.
swivelmaster 4y ago
"everyone gets a fair chance on the basis of the work they actually produce" This is already not the case and the article very clearly highlights this, if you had bothered to read it.
jdmg94 4y ago
Except you didn't even read the article. We cannot expect innovation by giving Adam Neuman (Who burned billions in VC funding on WeWork) another billion dollars for a second chance. This is also against the 14th Amendment but of course if it doesn't affect you then you won't give a fuck
- bsder 4y ago
  Sure, the public doesn't benefit, but why wouldn't Andressen fund Neuman? Neuman produced a cult that generated a beautiful pyramid scheme for those who got out early. From a VC point of view, the only issue was that VC's didn't have enough of a collar on Neuman to be able to shove him aside when he became a liability. I'm sure that mistake has been corrected. Anyone who thinks VCs are anything other than self-interested sociopaths hasn't been paying attention.

goldenchrome 4y ago

I still don’t know what “bro culture” is. At one time I thought it meant fraternity bros, as in the WASPy “my dad is a lawyer, let’s get blackout drunk” kind of bro. But in the last few years I’ve seen it associated with Silicon Valley, a place filled with engineers who worked themselves to the bone for huge paydays. To me the two groups are on opposite sides of the spectrum. Jocks vs nerds. The only thing I see in common between the two groups is that they’re both groups of ambitious men, with a chip on their shoulder of unknown size. Whenever I see these articles they read to me like “look over there, the men are making noise again”. Yeah, that’s what men do. Has anyone considered the fact that there are far fewer powerful women because women aren’t generally interested in working 80 hours a week?

ShamelessC 4y ago
It’s the size of the “chip on their shoulder” and the transition from people who care about tech (and money) to people who care about money (and tech). There’s a reason the frat bro tends to become a successful salesman or something in the stereotype. It’s not because they are passionate about sales. > Has anyone considered the fact that there are far fewer powerful women because women aren’t generally interested in working 80 hours a week You know, I don’t think this is really even related at all and ignores a great deal of nuance to the point of sounding pretty tone-deaf.
md2020 4y ago
Tbh I think this is just the classic situation of “elite” humanities people dunking on “elite” nerds. I’ve had the same experience of having no idea what the actual definition of “bro” is, and I’ve decided that it sounds made up simply because it is. “Those people who think differently than I do and also make a lot of money in their jobs? Must be something bad about them. Bros.”
patrick451 4y ago
It's a continuous stream of baseless, chiding articles like this that have tanked the NYT's credibility. If you really think tech firms have a Bro Culture, you've either never met a Bro or have no idea what tech culture is like.

Proven 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]