4 ms·

This seems to me as a more generic problem with newer hardware, not specific to Linux. Likely devices rushed out the door to meet some idiotic deadline, badly s

This seems to me as a more generic problem with newer hardware, not specific to Linux. Likely devices rushed out the door to meet some idiotic deadline, badly specced and with incompletely implemented drivers. At the end of 2021 I got an EliteBook 845 g8 (Zen 3) that worked completely fine out of the box on Linux (Arch with up-to-date kernel). Every last bit of kit worked perfectly. Bluetooth, IR webcam, fingerprint sensor, light sensor, mute LEDs, etc. On Windows, to this day, the webcam isn't recognized because of some USB chip along the line. There's also a lot of lag when adjusting the display backlight, for some reason. I also have its cousin, an EB 840 g8 (intel 11th gen). A few days ago I installed Win11 22h2 on it. I was lucky to have had an external mouse, since neither the touchpad nor the track point could be used for setup. And it absolutely needs the latest Intel GPU drivers to correctly output 4k@60 through its HP dock (DP pass-thtough, not DisplayLink). On Linux, the same display setup has worked well since day one. But the mute LEDs are still broken. Both laptops don't come with integrated wired network, so I have an HP USB dongle (Realtek chip). This works quite well on Linux. On Windows, it initially works well, but then, for some reason, Windows figures it needs to update the driver. Then it gains some interesting failure modes, where from the terminal I can do whatever I want, but Edge keeps thinking the connection is lost.

uluyol 4y ago
Arch is a rolling release distro. So it gets hardware support faster than other distros that stick to older kernels and userspace. Most users are not on rolling releases. I personally like the rolling approach, but that doesn't reflect everyone's experience.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  Ubuntu with the HWE kernel is basically rolling release for drivers, which seems like the best of both worlds.
  - the8472 4y ago
    you also want recent userspace for some components, e.g. mesa or libinput
  - black3r 4y ago
    HWE is not a rolling release, it's just backported kernels from newer non-LTS Ubuntu into an LTS version, releases every 6 months, so still very much a time-based release..., Ubuntu calls them "rolling" because when using HWE you get new kernel versions through regular "apt upgrade" once it gets released. But rolling release usually means that packages get upgrades as soon as possible after they are released upstream. btw HWE isn't even the best "ubuntu flavored kernel" in terms of hardware support.., there are the OEM kernels designed for Ubuntu certified laptops (such as XPS 13 Developer Edition) which get newer kernel versions and drivers faster than HWE, you can install them on any Ubuntu with regular apt ("apt install linux-oem-22.04" for example) ...
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      Oh, my mistake; you're quite correct that it's not a proper rolling release. I still think that it's a step forward for drivers, but yeah that's still a significant lag especially when Arch is in the running. Didn't know about the OEM kernels, either; that's a nice touch for what hardware it supports.
- sillystuff 4y ago
  Arch/Fedora are fine if you are OK with rolling release, but there are options for newer hardware support in stable distributions. E.g., you can install your kernel and firmware from backports (or even unstable) on Debian, so you get a stable distribution with bleeding edge kernel (currently 5.19 in the repos). Or, you can go the other way and run Debian testing/unstable, and pin some packages from stable. And, Redhat backports new drivers into its frozen shipping kernel version, so some popular new (server) hardware will work with their old kernels.
spadros 4y ago
In all my years I have yet to see HDMI output from a laptop to a monitor work on the first try in Ubuntu. Always need to install the proprietary drivers for that to work at all. If it can't even do that without a headache, after 10+ years of Linux use, I would call that a Linux problem, not a hardware problem. My colleagues seem to run into the same issue frequently as well. This article seems kind of ignorant. I'm glad it worked on the first try on his ancient ThinkPad. That doesn't mean Linux is stable enough for most normal use cases on most hardware for me to recommend it to any of my non-tech proficient family.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  I've never had any issue with HDMI or DP output. But it's true that my only laptop with a dedicated GPU was an MBP, all the others have or had integrated graphics.
- marcodiego 4y ago
  My Inspiron-3421 bought in 2013 never had a single issue with HDMI.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  What Laptop is this? I never had an issue with the external outputs on any laptop I owned (and I've been running Linux since the 90s). I also don't know anyone who had these issues. The main issues I had were typically docking stations and suspend (but that has been super stable for my last 3 laptops).
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    Laptops with iGPUs usually work pretty well. The ones with built-in discrete graphics cards can become kind of a mess to configure. A friend had one where, if I remember correctly, he'd gotten the built-in screen working with (I think) the iGPU, but anything into the HDMI port switched it over to the dGPU, which had some of those crappy NVIDIA drivers, causing both screens to shut off or something like that. (I didn't debug it so this is just an outline of the problem).
  - 4y ago
kitsunesoba 4y ago
> At the end of 2021 I got an EliteBook 845 g8 (Zen 3) that worked completely fine out of the box on Linux (Arch with up-to-date kernel). Every last bit of kit worked perfectly. Bluetooth, IR webcam, fingerprint sensor, light sensor, mute LEDs, etc. On Windows, to this day, the webcam isn't recognized because of some USB chip along the line. There's also a lot of lag when adjusting the display backlight, for some reason. Had an experience like this several years ago, but with hackintoshing. On a Dell workstation laptop with a Quadro FX770M GPU (basically a relabeled Geforce 8800M GT), the Nvidia drivers had an issue under XP, Vista, and 7 where if the card downclocked when idle it'd cause Windows to bluescreen. The only fix for this for many years was to disable power saving features on the card, turning the laptop into a furnace even when it was doing nothing. The proprietary Linux drivers for the card worked better (at least it could idle properly) but occasionally they'd cause your WM to lock up for no apparent reason. The only thing that ran the card for extended periods without issues, of all things, was hackintoshed OS X. The built-in Nvidia drivers recognized it as an 8800M GT (which had been used in real Macs at some point) and it ran beautifully with power saving and everything. I even used that setup to play WoW on for several years. The bug in the Windows driver was finally fixed at some point during the Windows 8/10 era, and so now I can run Windows on that laptop without problems, but holy cow it shouldn't have taken a decade (it was manufactured in 2008) for that to happen.
Andrex 4y ago
Anecdotal and it may not be hip to say, but I haven't had a problem with any Dell I've used (Fedora and Ubuntu since ~2010).
mycall 4y ago
I was looking at the new EliteBook g9 that has a i7-1280p and 64GB RAM DDR5 2TB, only $2500 (ouch). I would be surprised if Linux runs great OOTB. It is best to wait a gen before trying.

uluyol 4y ago

Arch is a rolling release distro. So it gets hardware support faster than other distros that stick to older kernels and userspace. Most users are not on rolling releases. I personally like the rolling approach, but that doesn't reflect everyone's experience.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
Ubuntu with the HWE kernel is basically rolling release for drivers, which seems like the best of both worlds.
- the8472 4y ago
  you also want recent userspace for some components, e.g. mesa or libinput
- black3r 4y ago
  HWE is not a rolling release, it's just backported kernels from newer non-LTS Ubuntu into an LTS version, releases every 6 months, so still very much a time-based release..., Ubuntu calls them "rolling" because when using HWE you get new kernel versions through regular "apt upgrade" once it gets released. But rolling release usually means that packages get upgrades as soon as possible after they are released upstream. btw HWE isn't even the best "ubuntu flavored kernel" in terms of hardware support.., there are the OEM kernels designed for Ubuntu certified laptops (such as XPS 13 Developer Edition) which get newer kernel versions and drivers faster than HWE, you can install them on any Ubuntu with regular apt ("apt install linux-oem-22.04" for example) ...
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    Oh, my mistake; you're quite correct that it's not a proper rolling release. I still think that it's a step forward for drivers, but yeah that's still a significant lag especially when Arch is in the running. Didn't know about the OEM kernels, either; that's a nice touch for what hardware it supports.
sillystuff 4y ago
Arch/Fedora are fine if you are OK with rolling release, but there are options for newer hardware support in stable distributions. E.g., you can install your kernel and firmware from backports (or even unstable) on Debian, so you get a stable distribution with bleeding edge kernel (currently 5.19 in the repos). Or, you can go the other way and run Debian testing/unstable, and pin some packages from stable. And, Redhat backports new drivers into its frozen shipping kernel version, so some popular new (server) hardware will work with their old kernels.

spadros 4y ago

In all my years I have yet to see HDMI output from a laptop to a monitor work on the first try in Ubuntu. Always need to install the proprietary drivers for that to work at all. If it can't even do that without a headache, after 10+ years of Linux use, I would call that a Linux problem, not a hardware problem. My colleagues seem to run into the same issue frequently as well. This article seems kind of ignorant. I'm glad it worked on the first try on his ancient ThinkPad. That doesn't mean Linux is stable enough for most normal use cases on most hardware for me to recommend it to any of my non-tech proficient family.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
I've never had any issue with HDMI or DP output. But it's true that my only laptop with a dedicated GPU was an MBP, all the others have or had integrated graphics.
marcodiego 4y ago
My Inspiron-3421 bought in 2013 never had a single issue with HDMI.
cycomanic 4y ago
What Laptop is this? I never had an issue with the external outputs on any laptop I owned (and I've been running Linux since the 90s). I also don't know anyone who had these issues. The main issues I had were typically docking stations and suspend (but that has been super stable for my last 3 laptops).
- bee_rider 4y ago
  Laptops with iGPUs usually work pretty well. The ones with built-in discrete graphics cards can become kind of a mess to configure. A friend had one where, if I remember correctly, he'd gotten the built-in screen working with (I think) the iGPU, but anything into the HDMI port switched it over to the dGPU, which had some of those crappy NVIDIA drivers, causing both screens to shut off or something like that. (I didn't debug it so this is just an outline of the problem).
- 4y ago

kitsunesoba 4y ago

> At the end of 2021 I got an EliteBook 845 g8 (Zen 3) that worked completely fine out of the box on Linux (Arch with up-to-date kernel). Every last bit of kit worked perfectly. Bluetooth, IR webcam, fingerprint sensor, light sensor, mute LEDs, etc. On Windows, to this day, the webcam isn't recognized because of some USB chip along the line. There's also a lot of lag when adjusting the display backlight, for some reason. Had an experience like this several years ago, but with hackintoshing. On a Dell workstation laptop with a Quadro FX770M GPU (basically a relabeled Geforce 8800M GT), the Nvidia drivers had an issue under XP, Vista, and 7 where if the card downclocked when idle it'd cause Windows to bluescreen. The only fix for this for many years was to disable power saving features on the card, turning the laptop into a furnace even when it was doing nothing. The proprietary Linux drivers for the card worked better (at least it could idle properly) but occasionally they'd cause your WM to lock up for no apparent reason. The only thing that ran the card for extended periods without issues, of all things, was hackintoshed OS X. The built-in Nvidia drivers recognized it as an 8800M GT (which had been used in real Macs at some point) and it ran beautifully with power saving and everything. I even used that setup to play WoW on for several years. The bug in the Windows driver was finally fixed at some point during the Windows 8/10 era, and so now I can run Windows on that laptop without problems, but holy cow it shouldn't have taken a decade (it was manufactured in 2008) for that to happen.

Andrex 4y ago

Anecdotal and it may not be hip to say, but I haven't had a problem with any Dell I've used (Fedora and Ubuntu since ~2010).

mycall 4y ago

I was looking at the new EliteBook g9 that has a i7-1280p and 64GB RAM DDR5 2TB, only $2500 (ouch). I would be surprised if Linux runs great OOTB. It is best to wait a gen before trying.