4 ms·

I am pretty confused about this German thing, only startups that don't have a current business like Cruise and Waymo are going for the disrupt approach. Literal

I am pretty confused about this German thing, only startups that don't have a current business like Cruise and Waymo are going for the disrupt approach. Literally every automaker that currently sell cars are doing incremental level 2/3 features, including Tesla.

dilyevsky 4y ago
Every company has invested in l4 including ze germans. They just usually run it as spin off
- steveBK123 4y ago
  The Germans are not charging users $15k to add these test features to their production vehicles.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    Instead they're charging users a monthly fee to use their heated seats.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      It's kind of weird, how each brand is trying to monetize / software-ize / subscription-ize different pieces. Tesla has very much unfortunately been a leader here that others are following. For example, Tesla for a while was shipping cars their cheapest with the heated seat hardware installed but software locked, and then offering buyers to pay later to unlock. Similar for some battery capacities. Likewise, Tesla charges for the monthly cellular data you almost certainly want/need after the first year, while BMW includes it free for the lifetime of the car or warranty (I don't recall offhand). BMW does offer you to upgrade the cellular service to let the car be a wifi hotspot, whereas Tesla doesn't offer that at all. You can use CarPlay on your BMW and therefore be relying on your phone data as well, while Tesla does not.. so if you want functional streaming music & GPS with traffic data on that big screen you are going to pay up after year 1. On the self driving software, Tesla has tried different ways of pricing & slicing (AP/EAP/FSD) over the years. Aside from the now free base AP offering, EAP/FSD has always been quite pricey compared to optioning out some of the assistance packages on BMW and other competitors. Similarly because Tesla has included the same hardware, they'll gladly sell you the software later (at progressively increasing pricing). Porsche also offers "function on demand" to add software packages later to unlock various automations you didn't buy initially..
  - dilyevsky 4y ago
    I’m not talking about tesla scammers I’m talking about direct competition to waymo, cruise and others
steveBK123 4y ago
What features Tesla does/doesn't support in what modes and whether they are prod or beta is a complete disaster. Read the car's user manual, Autopilot marketing page and car sales page to come back with 3 different answers. Not to mention tweets & press releases. Autopilot is safe & will prevent accidents and avoid accidents.. but also Autosteer (which is the steering part of autopilot) is beta and shouldn't be used near pedestrians. FSD is a 5-figure software beta, test gated and essentially should work anywhere with supervision, but also no one knows what scenarios it doesn't support other than "discovering" them in the wild & excusing Tesla for yet another "first", such as oncoming trolley cars vs your unprotected left turn. It avoids pedestrians and obstacles, unless they are short. etc etc. The Germans are not charging users for ill defined, beta, work-in-progress software.
- KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
  It's a valid complaint but it's goalpost moving. Also aside from Tesla every automaker has pretty clear level 2/3 features including GM, Ford, Toyota, Kia, etc everyone.

dilyevsky 4y ago

Every company has invested in l4 including ze germans. They just usually run it as spin off

steveBK123 4y ago
The Germans are not charging users $15k to add these test features to their production vehicles.
- fragmede 4y ago
  Instead they're charging users a monthly fee to use their heated seats.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    It's kind of weird, how each brand is trying to monetize / software-ize / subscription-ize different pieces. Tesla has very much unfortunately been a leader here that others are following. For example, Tesla for a while was shipping cars their cheapest with the heated seat hardware installed but software locked, and then offering buyers to pay later to unlock. Similar for some battery capacities. Likewise, Tesla charges for the monthly cellular data you almost certainly want/need after the first year, while BMW includes it free for the lifetime of the car or warranty (I don't recall offhand). BMW does offer you to upgrade the cellular service to let the car be a wifi hotspot, whereas Tesla doesn't offer that at all. You can use CarPlay on your BMW and therefore be relying on your phone data as well, while Tesla does not.. so if you want functional streaming music & GPS with traffic data on that big screen you are going to pay up after year 1. On the self driving software, Tesla has tried different ways of pricing & slicing (AP/EAP/FSD) over the years. Aside from the now free base AP offering, EAP/FSD has always been quite pricey compared to optioning out some of the assistance packages on BMW and other competitors. Similarly because Tesla has included the same hardware, they'll gladly sell you the software later (at progressively increasing pricing). Porsche also offers "function on demand" to add software packages later to unlock various automations you didn't buy initially..
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  I’m not talking about tesla scammers I’m talking about direct competition to waymo, cruise and others

steveBK123 4y ago

What features Tesla does/doesn't support in what modes and whether they are prod or beta is a complete disaster. Read the car's user manual, Autopilot marketing page and car sales page to come back with 3 different answers. Not to mention tweets & press releases. Autopilot is safe & will prevent accidents and avoid accidents.. but also Autosteer (which is the steering part of autopilot) is beta and shouldn't be used near pedestrians. FSD is a 5-figure software beta, test gated and essentially should work anywhere with supervision, but also no one knows what scenarios it doesn't support other than "discovering" them in the wild & excusing Tesla for yet another "first", such as oncoming trolley cars vs your unprotected left turn. It avoids pedestrians and obstacles, unless they are short. etc etc. The Germans are not charging users for ill defined, beta, work-in-progress software.

KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
It's a valid complaint but it's goalpost moving. Also aside from Tesla every automaker has pretty clear level 2/3 features including GM, Ford, Toyota, Kia, etc everyone.