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I actually find it ridiculous that engineers can be held personally liable for work performed for a company. It's not a model I would support moving towards, at

by uup 4y ago

I actually find it ridiculous that engineers can be held personally liable for work performed for a company. It's not a model I would support moving towards, at all.

bb611 4y ago
Agreed. We know issues at the design stage can be avoided by improving systems, making that the personal problem of someone with a PE is a bandaid solution. Improve regulation, fund regulators, incentivize companies to fund quality processes.
TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
If the world starts coming after corporations for these kinds of very-real safety issues caused by software, they're going to "do a pro move," and come after the programming profession.
- ydlr 4y ago
  Maybe we need professional certification for CEOs.
  - throwawaymaths 4y ago
    For better or worse, we do, and It's called an MBA
    - oneplane 4y ago
      Somehow it seems that an MBA doesn't certify someone a whole lot more than a sociopath certification would...
      - throwawaymaths 4y ago
        Hence the "for worse" option
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  'going'? The first person to get jail time during the 'DieselGate' scandal was James Liang, surprise surprise an Enginnering Head at VW. An army of Execs and C-levels were in the know but the first guy to go is a low-rank Engineer.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    I'm confused by this post. First you wrote: <<Enginnering Head at VW>>, then you wrote: <<low-rank Engineer>>. Which one is it? Engineering Head at VW probably makes huge money has has 10,000 well-paid staff under them.
    - DoingIsLearning 4y ago
      compared to a CTO, the enginnering head is low-rank. According to the prosecution he was making 270k in the US so not exactly mega bucks. My point is execs and C-levels always claim that their pay is justified by the risk and liability of their decisions but when the wheels hit the tarmac things change very quickly.
      - throwaway2037 4y ago
        Hat tip to your reply. This: <<According to the prosecution he was making 270k in the US so not exactly mega bucks.>> I agree 100%.
kazinator 4y ago
In actual engineering, that is the entrenched model. In civil engineering and other, individual engineers can face consequences for disasters like collapses. And other disciplines; a surgeon can face consequences for a surgery that was done by a team, and so on.

by uup 4y ago

I actually find it ridiculous that engineers can be held personally liable for work performed for a company. It's not a model I would support moving towards, at all.

bb611 4y ago

Agreed. We know issues at the design stage can be avoided by improving systems, making that the personal problem of someone with a PE is a bandaid solution. Improve regulation, fund regulators, incentivize companies to fund quality processes.

TheRealDunkirk 4y ago

If the world starts coming after corporations for these kinds of very-real safety issues caused by software, they're going to "do a pro move," and come after the programming profession.

ydlr 4y ago
Maybe we need professional certification for CEOs.
- throwawaymaths 4y ago
  For better or worse, we do, and It's called an MBA
  - oneplane 4y ago
    Somehow it seems that an MBA doesn't certify someone a whole lot more than a sociopath certification would...
    - throwawaymaths 4y ago
      Hence the "for worse" option
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
'going'? The first person to get jail time during the 'DieselGate' scandal was James Liang, surprise surprise an Enginnering Head at VW. An army of Execs and C-levels were in the know but the first guy to go is a low-rank Engineer.
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  I'm confused by this post. First you wrote: <<Enginnering Head at VW>>, then you wrote: <<low-rank Engineer>>. Which one is it? Engineering Head at VW probably makes huge money has has 10,000 well-paid staff under them.
  - DoingIsLearning 4y ago
    compared to a CTO, the enginnering head is low-rank. According to the prosecution he was making 270k in the US so not exactly mega bucks. My point is execs and C-levels always claim that their pay is justified by the risk and liability of their decisions but when the wheels hit the tarmac things change very quickly.
    - throwaway2037 4y ago
      Hat tip to your reply. This: <<According to the prosecution he was making 270k in the US so not exactly mega bucks.>> I agree 100%.

kazinator 4y ago

In actual engineering, that is the entrenched model. In civil engineering and other, individual engineers can face consequences for disasters like collapses. And other disciplines; a surgeon can face consequences for a surgery that was done by a team, and so on.