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How many incidents have human driven cars had in the same time period? I know the scale is different, but 3 is a pretty low number for the number of hours they’

by reidjs 4y ago

How many incidents have human driven cars had in the same time period? I know the scale is different, but 3 is a pretty low number for the number of hours they’ve racked up. I just wish we could have less cars overall and more bikes, scooters, trains, buses, etc.

rjzzleep 4y ago
I mean, how many driverless cars are there even? You can just compare absolute numbers. I can't believe I even have to bring it up on here. You mentioned yourself the number of hours. Are we comparing it to the total number of hours for ALL the cars in the same area?
- reidjs 4y ago
  You tell me. Is 3 a significantly high number, or is this a non-story? It doesn’t sound very high to me.
  - rjzzleep 4y ago
    There clearly don't seem to be too many of these cars. > UNITED STATES—A self-driving vehicle created by Cruise, a self-driving arm of General Motors Co., crashed into another car in San Francisco, leading to the recall of 80 more vehicles. One person who drove the car was arrested for suspicion of DUI. The algorithm that controls Cruise’s cars is reportedly capable of counting pedestrians and cyclists and detecting steel guardrails.[1] Just found another somewhat amusing link as I was looking for the number of cars. Here's two cruise drivers blocking the street. I guess they deadlocked[2]. [1] https://www.thesfnews.com/san-francisco-cruise-crash-leads-to-recall-of-80-self-driving-vehicles/83639 https://www.thesfnews.com/san-francisco-cruise-crash-leads-t... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/xloemd/two_selfdriving_cruise_cars_blocking_traffic_on/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/xloemd/two_se...
steveBK123 4y ago
Well if the whole fleet is 30 cars (asof this summer according to electrek - https://electrek.co/2022/06/23/gm-cruise-takes-first-fares-for-paid-driverless-taxi-in-san-francisco/ https://electrek.co/2022/06/23/gm-cruise-takes-first-fares-f...) 3 out of 30 is pretty pretty bad!
- steveBK123 4y ago
  another article claiming 30 driverless fleet size - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/driverless-taxis-are-coming-to-san-francisco-180980202/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/driverless-taxis-a...
- reidjs 4y ago
  Idk if it is bad. The way the article headline is worded it sounds like the cars are crashing into puppies and grandmas. In reality they just caused traffic to get backed up for about 20 minutes because a sensor broke or something. This seems like a misleading headline by kron4.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    I think techies make a lot of excuses for tech that just isn't even remotely there yet. Driverless cars is very much that category of tech. If 10% of the Toyota Camrys on the road in a given city suddenly froze in place and caused traffic jams simultaneously in a major US city, requiring roadside assistance, we'd all be laughing at those incompetent dinosaurs.
    - reidjs 4y ago
      Not remotely there? It already drives better than very old and very young drivers, as well as people who are drunk or tired. At least this tech should get our worst drivers off the road.
- rascul 4y ago
  3 out of 30 may or may not be bad. How many miles over how many hours have these cars driven?
syntaxing 4y ago
If only there was some sort of math “journalist” can use to make the article less sensational that takes into account of other evidence like how many hours it drove and how many cars there are on the streets driven by humans. We can even call them priors!
reTensor 4y ago
Cruise is a mess internally. The product is unreliable garbage. For more details, see this recent whisteleblower account of the situation: Cruise robotaxi service under review following anonymous letter (https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/14/cruise-robotaxi-under-review-following-anonymous-letter/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/14/cruise-robotaxi-under-revi...) I work directly with the employee who submitted the complaint. He is understating the problem. The letter also states that Cruise ... intentionally hides from the majority of employees the results of investigations into collisions involving Cruise vehicles and other sensitive, potentially damaging matters. Cruise has been covering up safety incidents since before the GM acquisition, including an early incident where an engineer suffered a concussion due to violent cabin motion caused by bad motion control code.
- AlotOfReading 4y ago
  I looked through your comment history and didn't actually see additional details. What specifically are you referring to?
  - reTensor 4y ago
    I inserted the details into my comment to save you the trouble, and accidentally didn't edit out that sentence. I have to be careful not to reveal my identity by saying too much.
    - AlotOfReading 4y ago
      Totally fair, I understand. I'm an ex-employee that might return soon, so I was curious how things changed so much since I left.
steveBK123 4y ago
Right and I think if driverless taxis ever work (they won't outside small geo fenced localities & narrow use cases) only incentivizes oversupply. In a taxi or even perma-loss-leading Uber/Lyft, there is a labor component which disincentives between-ride transient driving. Whether they are paid employees costing company money, or independent contractors looking at hours worked vs take home pay.. In a high fixed cost, low operating cost driverless taxi this is not the case. Very easy to imagine fleets of these stupid things clogging the streets even worse than Uber ever did. Note NYC traffic + TL&C stats already show Uber/Lyft have always had much lower utilization rate per hour/mile than yellow cabs, and thus require more cars on the road to serve the same passenger miles.
masonic 4y ago
>3 is a pretty low number 3 complete shutdowns blocking traffic in one city on the same day.

by reidjs 4y ago

rjzzleep 4y ago

I mean, how many driverless cars are there even? You can just compare absolute numbers. I can't believe I even have to bring it up on here. You mentioned yourself the number of hours. Are we comparing it to the total number of hours for ALL the cars in the same area?

reidjs 4y ago
You tell me. Is 3 a significantly high number, or is this a non-story? It doesn’t sound very high to me.
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  There clearly don't seem to be too many of these cars. > UNITED STATES—A self-driving vehicle created by Cruise, a self-driving arm of General Motors Co., crashed into another car in San Francisco, leading to the recall of 80 more vehicles. One person who drove the car was arrested for suspicion of DUI. The algorithm that controls Cruise’s cars is reportedly capable of counting pedestrians and cyclists and detecting steel guardrails.[1] Just found another somewhat amusing link as I was looking for the number of cars. Here's two cruise drivers blocking the street. I guess they deadlocked[2]. [1] https://www.thesfnews.com/san-francisco-cruise-crash-leads-to-recall-of-80-self-driving-vehicles/83639 https://www.thesfnews.com/san-francisco-cruise-crash-leads-t... [2] https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/xloemd/two_selfdriving_cruise_cars_blocking_traffic_on/ https://old.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/xloemd/two_se...

steveBK123 4y ago

Well if the whole fleet is 30 cars (asof this summer according to electrek - https://electrek.co/2022/06/23/gm-cruise-takes-first-fares-for-paid-driverless-taxi-in-san-francisco/ https://electrek.co/2022/06/23/gm-cruise-takes-first-fares-f...) 3 out of 30 is pretty pretty bad!

steveBK123 4y ago
another article claiming 30 driverless fleet size - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/driverless-taxis-are-coming-to-san-francisco-180980202/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/driverless-taxis-a...
reidjs 4y ago
Idk if it is bad. The way the article headline is worded it sounds like the cars are crashing into puppies and grandmas. In reality they just caused traffic to get backed up for about 20 minutes because a sensor broke or something. This seems like a misleading headline by kron4.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  I think techies make a lot of excuses for tech that just isn't even remotely there yet. Driverless cars is very much that category of tech. If 10% of the Toyota Camrys on the road in a given city suddenly froze in place and caused traffic jams simultaneously in a major US city, requiring roadside assistance, we'd all be laughing at those incompetent dinosaurs.
  - reidjs 4y ago
    Not remotely there? It already drives better than very old and very young drivers, as well as people who are drunk or tired. At least this tech should get our worst drivers off the road.
rascul 4y ago
3 out of 30 may or may not be bad. How many miles over how many hours have these cars driven?

syntaxing 4y ago

If only there was some sort of math “journalist” can use to make the article less sensational that takes into account of other evidence like how many hours it drove and how many cars there are on the streets driven by humans. We can even call them priors!

reTensor 4y ago

Cruise is a mess internally. The product is unreliable garbage. For more details, see this recent whisteleblower account of the situation: Cruise robotaxi service under review following anonymous letter (https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/14/cruise-robotaxi-under-review-following-anonymous-letter/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/14/cruise-robotaxi-under-revi...) I work directly with the employee who submitted the complaint. He is understating the problem. The letter also states that Cruise ... intentionally hides from the majority of employees the results of investigations into collisions involving Cruise vehicles and other sensitive, potentially damaging matters. Cruise has been covering up safety incidents since before the GM acquisition, including an early incident where an engineer suffered a concussion due to violent cabin motion caused by bad motion control code.

AlotOfReading 4y ago
I looked through your comment history and didn't actually see additional details. What specifically are you referring to?
- reTensor 4y ago
  I inserted the details into my comment to save you the trouble, and accidentally didn't edit out that sentence. I have to be careful not to reveal my identity by saying too much.
  - AlotOfReading 4y ago
    Totally fair, I understand. I'm an ex-employee that might return soon, so I was curious how things changed so much since I left.

steveBK123 4y ago

Right and I think if driverless taxis ever work (they won't outside small geo fenced localities & narrow use cases) only incentivizes oversupply. In a taxi or even perma-loss-leading Uber/Lyft, there is a labor component which disincentives between-ride transient driving. Whether they are paid employees costing company money, or independent contractors looking at hours worked vs take home pay.. In a high fixed cost, low operating cost driverless taxi this is not the case. Very easy to imagine fleets of these stupid things clogging the streets even worse than Uber ever did. Note NYC traffic + TL&C stats already show Uber/Lyft have always had much lower utilization rate per hour/mile than yellow cabs, and thus require more cars on the road to serve the same passenger miles.

masonic 4y ago

>3 is a pretty low number 3 complete shutdowns blocking traffic in one city on the same day.