Edit; sorry I misread your comment somehow! I will leave my response anyway. But it is not actually relevant to your comment; sorry about that. I agree with you

Edit; sorry I misread your comment somehow! I will leave my response anyway. But it is not actually relevant to your comment; sorry about that. I agree with you, I guess the ‘even compared’ threw me off; laravel is pretty painless imho so maybe it does actually apply? What is bad about laravel for development experience? I don’t like php or js or, dare I say it, ts (I don’t mind the language and like the type system but the tooling is so rotten; hope deno will fix things), so I often experiment in projects by taking something else like Phoenix, IHP or Dioxus etc and it’s nice, but you always run into the lack of help when stuck. I did a large project with a team with laravel the past months and was really surprised how productive it is; we did basically the impossible in a very short time. Mostly because plug-ins and the bizarre amount of capable people willing to help all over the place. Still don’t like the language but it’s very productive and robust imho. Wordpress I did quite a lot with as well but I will never like it; it is too messy to be clean and too clean to be a mess; it doesn’t fit my way of thinking either way. I feel real joy not having to use JS for anything though; things like liveview/livewire/blazor/dioxus etc really make my life better.