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California Moves to Ban Natural Gas Furnaces and Heaters by 2030

6 points by Bostonian 4y ago

Bostonian 4y ago
A WSJ editorial "Progressive Mind Over Matter in California: No gas furnaces after 2030, and all big rigs must be electric" is at https://archive.ph/rES5u https://archive.ph/rES5u. A recent thread was "Sierra Club, environmental groups petition EPA to ban natural gas for heating" at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32739022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32739022.
mikewarot 4y ago
So there's going to be a new market for used Natural Gas furnaces and appliances in California? That's going to get a lot of people killed by carbon monoxide. Let's see... thousands to rewire a house for service big enough to feed an electric heater and range, etc... or $500 for a "used" furnace. It's obvious what's going to happen. [Edit] This will disproportionately effect the poor and undocumented, who can't afford the complexities of government interaction. [Edit2] I think a sales tax would have been a better way to do it, with an increasing amount each year.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  No need to scaremonger. People die already from malfunctioning fossil gas appliances but it’s only about 20 people a year. Less fossil gas appliances over time means less deaths caused over time. Heat pumps and induction stoves don’t require enormous amounts of current, and there are subsidies available for the electrical upgrades necessary. There’s already a used market for these items, simply open Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace and search for gas furnace or gas stove. Importantly, this sends market signals to deprecate new gas appliances for various reasons, just like a future new combustion vehicle sales ban. Also, the cost of electricity will be driven down in the future due to the cost decline curve of renewables and batteries. Go look at what the price of fossil gas looks like over the last 24 months at Henry Hub. This is about "being where the puck is going to be." Edit: Admittedly, it sucks to be poor in America but subsidies are still available. I’m unsure how you craft policy for the undocumented in this case. They’ll continue to source low cost used appliances due to being in poverty perpetually. If they rent, it’s up to their landlord, who probably has the pockets to do this (with perhaps some policy arm turning). This won’t happen overnight; it’s to turn the supertanker that is energy policy over a decade or so away from fossil fuels. Edit 2: A sales tax wouldn't work, too many wealthy people who would just say "Imma buy gas appliances IDGAF throws money". Gotta do an outright ban. (Part time housing provider with property holdings and familiar with government mandated improvements)

6 points by Bostonian 4y ago

A WSJ editorial "Progressive Mind Over Matter in California: No gas furnaces after 2030, and all big rigs must be electric" is at https://archive.ph/rES5u https://archive.ph/rES5u. A recent thread was "Sierra Club, environmental groups petition EPA to ban natural gas for heating" at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32739022 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32739022.

mikewarot 4y ago

So there's going to be a new market for used Natural Gas furnaces and appliances in California? That's going to get a lot of people killed by carbon monoxide. Let's see... thousands to rewire a house for service big enough to feed an electric heater and range, etc... or $500 for a "used" furnace. It's obvious what's going to happen. [Edit] This will disproportionately effect the poor and undocumented, who can't afford the complexities of government interaction. [Edit2] I think a sales tax would have been a better way to do it, with an increasing amount each year.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
No need to scaremonger. People die already from malfunctioning fossil gas appliances but it’s only about 20 people a year. Less fossil gas appliances over time means less deaths caused over time. Heat pumps and induction stoves don’t require enormous amounts of current, and there are subsidies available for the electrical upgrades necessary. There’s already a used market for these items, simply open Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace and search for gas furnace or gas stove. Importantly, this sends market signals to deprecate new gas appliances for various reasons, just like a future new combustion vehicle sales ban. Also, the cost of electricity will be driven down in the future due to the cost decline curve of renewables and batteries. Go look at what the price of fossil gas looks like over the last 24 months at Henry Hub. This is about "being where the puck is going to be." Edit: Admittedly, it sucks to be poor in America but subsidies are still available. I’m unsure how you craft policy for the undocumented in this case. They’ll continue to source low cost used appliances due to being in poverty perpetually. If they rent, it’s up to their landlord, who probably has the pockets to do this (with perhaps some policy arm turning). This won’t happen overnight; it’s to turn the supertanker that is energy policy over a decade or so away from fossil fuels. Edit 2: A sales tax wouldn't work, too many wealthy people who would just say "Imma buy gas appliances IDGAF throws money". Gotta do an outright ban. (Part time housing provider with property holdings and familiar with government mandated improvements)