4 ms·

I agree with your point about history being a great instructor but the fiction examples you gave were pop fiction, that are deliberate fantasy (and thus disastr

by oska 4y ago

I agree with your point about history being a great instructor but the fiction examples you gave were pop fiction, that are deliberate fantasy (and thus disastrous to think they can teach you life lessons, a point that has been repeatedly made from at least as early as Don Quixote). How about Shakespeare though?

WalterBright 4y ago
Literary fiction isn't any different. Why should it be? (Shakespeare in its day was pop fiction for the masses.) The examples I cited may be deliberate fantasy, but people still regard them as life lessons. For The Wire, Hahvahd even had a course of instruction on drug crime using The Wire to teach. I was amazed that people defended this.
- P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
  The wire was written by people who worked as actual police. The stories in the wire obviously aren't true, but when I found that out it made complete sense. There's just something more real about the wire than most other shows.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    Wouldn't it be better to read actual accounts of criminals, rather than fictional accounts? I.e. make it a documentary? I bet many documentaries would make far more compelling cinema than any made up story. For example, "Empire of the Summer Moon". What a great epic that story is. And it really happened.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      It must be noted that documentaries are still interpretations. Having said that, I understand what you're saying. I could talk at length about what I took away from Ordinary Men by Christopher R Browning. For example, german soldiers on the trains taking jews to death camps ran out of bullets because they were shooting them as they tried to escape the moving train. Think about how many damned bullets that is. OTOH, The Wire to me is entertainment. It's one of those shows that hugely believable and once you learn the writers have actual on-the-ground experience, you start to understand why it seems so believable. That doesn't mean you don't recognize it as entertainment.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        > It must be noted that documentaries are still interpretations. Yup. I agree The Wire is fine entertainment. More than that, nah. I read more than once that real mafioso started emulating the quirks, behaviors and characteristics of movie mafioso. Being a nerd myself, I know that movie nerds have little or nothing in common with real nerds, but they are the popular misconception of nerds. Has anyone ever said to you "say that again in English"? Not to me.

by oska 4y ago

WalterBright 4y ago

Literary fiction isn't any different. Why should it be? (Shakespeare in its day was pop fiction for the masses.) The examples I cited may be deliberate fantasy, but people still regard them as life lessons. For The Wire, Hahvahd even had a course of instruction on drug crime using The Wire to teach. I was amazed that people defended this.

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
The wire was written by people who worked as actual police. The stories in the wire obviously aren't true, but when I found that out it made complete sense. There's just something more real about the wire than most other shows.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Wouldn't it be better to read actual accounts of criminals, rather than fictional accounts? I.e. make it a documentary? I bet many documentaries would make far more compelling cinema than any made up story. For example, "Empire of the Summer Moon". What a great epic that story is. And it really happened.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    It must be noted that documentaries are still interpretations. Having said that, I understand what you're saying. I could talk at length about what I took away from Ordinary Men by Christopher R Browning. For example, german soldiers on the trains taking jews to death camps ran out of bullets because they were shooting them as they tried to escape the moving train. Think about how many damned bullets that is. OTOH, The Wire to me is entertainment. It's one of those shows that hugely believable and once you learn the writers have actual on-the-ground experience, you start to understand why it seems so believable. That doesn't mean you don't recognize it as entertainment.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      > It must be noted that documentaries are still interpretations. Yup. I agree The Wire is fine entertainment. More than that, nah. I read more than once that real mafioso started emulating the quirks, behaviors and characteristics of movie mafioso. Being a nerd myself, I know that movie nerds have little or nothing in common with real nerds, but they are the popular misconception of nerds. Has anyone ever said to you "say that again in English"? Not to me.