5 ms·

I wholeheartedly disagree. Wherever bicycles and cars share the same routes, at roughly the same speed, they should share the same roads - at a speed that is sa

I wholeheartedly disagree. Wherever bicycles and cars share the same routes, at roughly the same speed, they should share the same roads - at a speed that is safe for everyone, so about 30km/h. For routes and speeds that are different (highways), roads should be separated.

akvadrako 4y ago
30 kph is absurdly fast for city bikes and really slow for cars on any long stretch of road. So it's only relevant for like 1% of roads that are very windy and only sport cyclists go.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  That is BS. Because that is my default speed on a 3-speed from about 1985 on flat grounds. Damn! So absurd, I must be from the future, or something.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    My fast speed now is about 22 kph. I'm definitely not as fast as I was when I was a teenager in 1985. I'm even slower when carrying a kid on the back. Looks like Google Maps uses 20 kph for their average bike speed. (I measured a rails-to-trails route; 12.3 miles in 1 hour = 19.8 km.)
    - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
      I didn't speak about teenager. Then it would be a different bike, 10- or 12-speed, and effortless 45 to 55 kph, with peak speeds for a few minutes to up to 70+ kph. I know about that google thing, and similar sites. They are useless to me, because I'm always 3 to 4 times faster. /me shrugs and thinks most of you are doing it wrong and/or have terrible bicyles.
      - eesmith 4y ago
        https://metrosaga.com/speed-professional-cyclists-ride/ https://metrosaga.com/speed-professional-cyclists-ride/ says "The Bicycling Magazine reports that a professional Tour de France cyclist maintains the average speed depending on the terrain. On flat ground, the speed of the rider is between 25 and 28 mph." That's 40 to 45 kph. https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed.php https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed.php says "Quite competent club rider, some regular training likely, medium-long distances (say 50-60 miles): 20-24 mph" (for "'mixed' terrain (ie rolling hills about 30% of the time, and pretty flat the rest of the time"). That's 32 to 39 kph. Have you considered that Lance Armstrong might not be a good baseline for the median bike rider on the streets?
        LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
        I'm weary of repeating myself, but do so nonetheless, since I can't know if you have read my former comments about this, or not. So, long story short: growing up more or less disinterested in TV, because small B&W only at home, having more fun playing with my classmates in the forest and so on, I've been mostly unimpressed with TDF and similar. Even on larger color-tv when at home of some of classmates. You know why? Because I couldn't afford expensive bicycles, had no cars following me with spares, which in turn required maximum attention of my driving, and lastly I did not dope ;-> Oh, and running marathons instead if temporary lack of funds required waiting until I could repair my bicycle, because there was always something to fix/exchange, at least the way I've driven. Which came up to 300km a day, not every day, but often. Which in turn I didn't even notice, because I just didn't care about trip distance, instead being fixated on pushing the needle of the tachometer to the right as often and as long as possible :-) My neighbour noticed instead, and couldn't believe it. This went on for years, at least during school times, then went down a little because of real life constraints like work, time, etc. So TDF and the likes just made me think: So what? But still 100km is nothing special at all, and 50km are nothing. 160km I do notice, but hey, 3-speed from 1985, who cares? :-) Oh, and I drive during all weather, even on ice, but that is rare. I am neither some hulk, nor some doped bicyling celebrity. Just fit, born in 1969, 181cm tall, and usually weighing somewhere between 81 to 85kg(83 atm). Oh, and this 3-speed bicycle from about 1985 I'm speaking of I bought used for 150€ in 2005, which the shop keeper has shown me, after I've been unsatisfied with the 100eds of trash bikes on display, asking for something 'usable' and 'normal' instead. They just aren't built like that anymore! (Frame of Randonneur, 27"x1 1/4 wheels, classic handlebar, Sachs Torpedo 3-speed hub with coaster/back pedal brake, feeble front wheel brake, mudcatchers, siderolling front dynamo, lights, porter/carrier with wirebasket fixed to it with cable ties, heavy saddle with steel springs, 12.5kg! Has been sold as "Deutschlandrad" by Kalkhoff at the time) edit: Ring, Ring!
- choeger 4y ago
  But 20kph is absolutely doable for even several kilometers. A speed difference of 10kph ain't that problematic. The idea shouldn't be to create the perfect bicycle town, but to reconcile different modes of transportation. A cyclist that doesn't want to travel at 20-30kph can, IMO, share a space with pedestrians at a speed of about 10kph or less.
kitkat_new 4y ago
I think streets with speed limits of 20km/h or pedestrian velocity should be fine, too

akvadrako 4y ago

30 kph is absurdly fast for city bikes and really slow for cars on any long stretch of road. So it's only relevant for like 1% of roads that are very windy and only sport cyclists go.

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
That is BS. Because that is my default speed on a 3-speed from about 1985 on flat grounds. Damn! So absurd, I must be from the future, or something.
- eesmith 4y ago
  My fast speed now is about 22 kph. I'm definitely not as fast as I was when I was a teenager in 1985. I'm even slower when carrying a kid on the back. Looks like Google Maps uses 20 kph for their average bike speed. (I measured a rails-to-trails route; 12.3 miles in 1 hour = 19.8 km.)
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    I didn't speak about teenager. Then it would be a different bike, 10- or 12-speed, and effortless 45 to 55 kph, with peak speeds for a few minutes to up to 70+ kph. I know about that google thing, and similar sites. They are useless to me, because I'm always 3 to 4 times faster. /me shrugs and thinks most of you are doing it wrong and/or have terrible bicyles.
    - eesmith 4y ago
      https://metrosaga.com/speed-professional-cyclists-ride/ https://metrosaga.com/speed-professional-cyclists-ride/ says "The Bicycling Magazine reports that a professional Tour de France cyclist maintains the average speed depending on the terrain. On flat ground, the speed of the rider is between 25 and 28 mph." That's 40 to 45 kph. https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed.php https://www.road-bike.co.uk/articles/average-speed.php says "Quite competent club rider, some regular training likely, medium-long distances (say 50-60 miles): 20-24 mph" (for "'mixed' terrain (ie rolling hills about 30% of the time, and pretty flat the rest of the time"). That's 32 to 39 kph. Have you considered that Lance Armstrong might not be a good baseline for the median bike rider on the streets?
      - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
        I'm weary of repeating myself, but do so nonetheless, since I can't know if you have read my former comments about this, or not. So, long story short: growing up more or less disinterested in TV, because small B&W only at home, having more fun playing with my classmates in the forest and so on, I've been mostly unimpressed with TDF and similar. Even on larger color-tv when at home of some of classmates. You know why? Because I couldn't afford expensive bicycles, had no cars following me with spares, which in turn required maximum attention of my driving, and lastly I did not dope ;-> Oh, and running marathons instead if temporary lack of funds required waiting until I could repair my bicycle, because there was always something to fix/exchange, at least the way I've driven. Which came up to 300km a day, not every day, but often. Which in turn I didn't even notice, because I just didn't care about trip distance, instead being fixated on pushing the needle of the tachometer to the right as often and as long as possible :-) My neighbour noticed instead, and couldn't believe it. This went on for years, at least during school times, then went down a little because of real life constraints like work, time, etc. So TDF and the likes just made me think: So what? But still 100km is nothing special at all, and 50km are nothing. 160km I do notice, but hey, 3-speed from 1985, who cares? :-) Oh, and I drive during all weather, even on ice, but that is rare. I am neither some hulk, nor some doped bicyling celebrity. Just fit, born in 1969, 181cm tall, and usually weighing somewhere between 81 to 85kg(83 atm). Oh, and this 3-speed bicycle from about 1985 I'm speaking of I bought used for 150€ in 2005, which the shop keeper has shown me, after I've been unsatisfied with the 100eds of trash bikes on display, asking for something 'usable' and 'normal' instead. They just aren't built like that anymore! (Frame of Randonneur, 27"x1 1/4 wheels, classic handlebar, Sachs Torpedo 3-speed hub with coaster/back pedal brake, feeble front wheel brake, mudcatchers, siderolling front dynamo, lights, porter/carrier with wirebasket fixed to it with cable ties, heavy saddle with steel springs, 12.5kg! Has been sold as "Deutschlandrad" by Kalkhoff at the time) edit: Ring, Ring!
choeger 4y ago
But 20kph is absolutely doable for even several kilometers. A speed difference of 10kph ain't that problematic. The idea shouldn't be to create the perfect bicycle town, but to reconcile different modes of transportation. A cyclist that doesn't want to travel at 20-30kph can, IMO, share a space with pedestrians at a speed of about 10kph or less.

kitkat_new 4y ago

I think streets with speed limits of 20km/h or pedestrian velocity should be fine, too