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I won't go into arguing this point (I'm commenting on this thread in general), but I'd like to make one point. There is a lot of chat about how horrible and st

I won't go into arguing this point (I'm commenting on this thread in general), but I'd like to make one point. There is a lot of chat about how horrible and stupid and crazy anyone who voted for Brexit was. For me this has the effect of shutting down any debate whatsoever, and making HN just another group-think forum destroying the main reason why I come here and read. You may strongly disagree with the ruling party - that's fine, but the politicians advocating their ideas are by not means stupid (Kwarteng has a PhD in economic history from the University of Cambridge, Truss read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Merton College, Oxford). Rachel Reeves the shadow chancellor for that matter has a MSc in Economics from the London School of Economics. All of these people know far more about economics than I do and for the most part whether I agree with them or not, I believe that they do have the best interests of Britain at heart; and I would say being "devoid of ideas" might be due to the circumstances in Britain and the world being pretty challenging with there being no easy answers. It doesn't take looking much beyond our borders to see that other countries' leaders are also struggling to deal with difficult circumstances (Olaf Sholz is leading a very divided Germany; Macron is being challenged by both extremes; Italy looks to be electing a pretty far-right leader). Let's try to keep the name-calling and insulting to a minimum - it really doesn't help anyone, nor is it going to convince anyone of the rightness of your cause.

LatteLazy 4y ago
Careful, I didn't call Kwarteng an idiot. I'm sure the top .1% of the Brexit club are very smart, well educated and highly credentialed. They're also liars and fraudsters. What I said about the government is that they had no new ideas and no long term thinking. I think that holds true. For all his qualifications, the best the chancellor can manage is minor changes to a few tax rates in the face of an economic emergency. Most of his tax changes just reverse the changes made last year. So his ideas are just back to 2020. Hardly new stuff. Is any of that an unfair or inaccurate characterisation of the current government or brexiteers? As for debate with brexiteers, that isn't really possible. You cannot debate someone who won't accept the facts and who lies about (or doesn't know) their reasons for their position. Only 1 brexiteer in the 100s I've met has managed that and he was just a racist (though he was at least honest enough to say so). At this point "debate" is pointless, the facts are in, one side refuses to accept them and we are where we are. The social and psychological causes might be worth discussing, but you don't need brexiteers for that, anymore than you need to talk to a cancer to understand cancer...

LatteLazy 4y ago

Careful, I didn't call Kwarteng an idiot. I'm sure the top .1% of the Brexit club are very smart, well educated and highly credentialed. They're also liars and fraudsters. What I said about the government is that they had no new ideas and no long term thinking. I think that holds true. For all his qualifications, the best the chancellor can manage is minor changes to a few tax rates in the face of an economic emergency. Most of his tax changes just reverse the changes made last year. So his ideas are just back to 2020. Hardly new stuff. Is any of that an unfair or inaccurate characterisation of the current government or brexiteers? As for debate with brexiteers, that isn't really possible. You cannot debate someone who won't accept the facts and who lies about (or doesn't know) their reasons for their position. Only 1 brexiteer in the 100s I've met has managed that and he was just a racist (though he was at least honest enough to say so). At this point "debate" is pointless, the facts are in, one side refuses to accept them and we are where we are. The social and psychological causes might be worth discussing, but you don't need brexiteers for that, anymore than you need to talk to a cancer to understand cancer...