3 ms·

Whether they are sending a full log report of my actions TODAY is beside the main point. I do however know two things. 1) That their local software processes

by DevX101 15y ago

Whether they are sending a full log report of my actions TODAY is beside the main point. I do however know two things. 1) That their local software processes almost every key stroke made. 2) And that they do send at least some portion of this data back to their servers. At this point it would be trivial for them to send my private information TOMORROW if they decided to do so. I don't know that they don't have a subroutine to begin sending all of my SMS back to their servers if they decide to so for profit or under government coercion. If they have no plans of using my Google searches, they shouldn't process it in the first place.

hackoder 15y ago
This is exactly right. It is the presence of a keylogger, which (at the very least) is echoing keystrokes, that is the problem. Whether they 'send' everything or only parts of it, or whether the data is anonymized, aggregated etc is a whole other discussion.
tptacek 15y ago
This is, of course, an attitude that is going to "deftly" shoot down any new fact or analysis brought into the discussion. Your starting point was that they were collecting† data that could jeopardize national security††. You clearly based that argument on the idea that their own recruiter mentioned "10s of gigabytes a day". Now, in true message board geek fashion, you're going to steadily move the goalposts. What? They're not collecting messages? Well then they're processing messages! They shouldn't be doing that either! The problem with this tactic --- make a spectacularly unsupported assertion and then back off it in a series of non-concession-concessions --- is that you cease to be credible. Is this what you really think? Or will you re-harden your position if e.g. it becomes clear that they're not even seeing the keycodes of the keypresses, but rather using an API that could conceivably allow them to get them. † Your word. †† Ibid.
- white_devil 15y ago
  Here's a thread full of you vehemently defending/rationalizing police state -like behaviour: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2802917 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2802917 Now you're defending/rationalizing whatever disgusting bullshit Carrier IQ is up to. What's wrong with you? Just like we didn't have absolute proof that Aaron's indictment was politically motivated, we can't be absolutely sure that Carrier IQ is a company full of shit and devoid of morals. But it's blindingly obvious that both are very, very likely. In case you're just blissfully unaware of how full of shit the world actually is, here's a report on your justice system fraudulently, systematically signing away people's homes: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-courts-helping-banks-screw-over-homeowners-20101110?print=true http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-courts...
  - fluidcruft 15y ago
    Government contracts can have that effect.
    - tptacek 15y ago
      I wouldn't know. But the idea that you can't even fathom how someone might have a different point of view from you and not be bought off by the government is telling.
      - fluidcruft 15y ago
        I actually concur with your arguments. But I guess you're hell bent on making an ass of you and me.
- seigenblues 15y ago
  He's based his argument on the recruiter's statement, which is a poor choice. On the other hand, other material from the company supports, in fact, a much larger number. I don't think there's any goalpost moving here at all: Hundreds of millions of keyloggers -- rootkits, really, as the article states -- are installed and unremovable. Whether they are being abused or not at the moment is irrelevant; it should be outrageous and unacceptable that such a datastream is going through a third-party without any kind of transparency, acceptance, or even tacit acknowledgement. Likewise, your rhetorical refutation here (very thorough, in the abstract) would be a lot more damning if there wasn't, you know, video evidence of this rootkit collecting exactly this data and sending it back.

by DevX101 15y ago

hackoder 15y ago

This is exactly right. It is the presence of a keylogger, which (at the very least) is echoing keystrokes, that is the problem. Whether they 'send' everything or only parts of it, or whether the data is anonymized, aggregated etc is a whole other discussion.

tptacek 15y ago

This is, of course, an attitude that is going to "deftly" shoot down any new fact or analysis brought into the discussion. Your starting point was that they were collecting† data that could jeopardize national security††. You clearly based that argument on the idea that their own recruiter mentioned "10s of gigabytes a day". Now, in true message board geek fashion, you're going to steadily move the goalposts. What? They're not collecting messages? Well then they're processing messages! They shouldn't be doing that either! The problem with this tactic --- make a spectacularly unsupported assertion and then back off it in a series of non-concession-concessions --- is that you cease to be credible. Is this what you really think? Or will you re-harden your position if e.g. it becomes clear that they're not even seeing the keycodes of the keypresses, but rather using an API that could conceivably allow them to get them. † Your word. †† Ibid.

white_devil 15y ago
Here's a thread full of you vehemently defending/rationalizing police state -like behaviour: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2802917 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2802917 Now you're defending/rationalizing whatever disgusting bullshit Carrier IQ is up to. What's wrong with you? Just like we didn't have absolute proof that Aaron's indictment was politically motivated, we can't be absolutely sure that Carrier IQ is a company full of shit and devoid of morals. But it's blindingly obvious that both are very, very likely. In case you're just blissfully unaware of how full of shit the world actually is, here's a report on your justice system fraudulently, systematically signing away people's homes: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-courts-helping-banks-screw-over-homeowners-20101110?print=true http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/matt-taibbi-courts...
- fluidcruft 15y ago
  Government contracts can have that effect.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    I wouldn't know. But the idea that you can't even fathom how someone might have a different point of view from you and not be bought off by the government is telling.
    - fluidcruft 15y ago
      I actually concur with your arguments. But I guess you're hell bent on making an ass of you and me.
seigenblues 15y ago
He's based his argument on the recruiter's statement, which is a poor choice. On the other hand, other material from the company supports, in fact, a much larger number. I don't think there's any goalpost moving here at all: Hundreds of millions of keyloggers -- rootkits, really, as the article states -- are installed and unremovable. Whether they are being abused or not at the moment is irrelevant; it should be outrageous and unacceptable that such a datastream is going through a third-party without any kind of transparency, acceptance, or even tacit acknowledgement. Likewise, your rhetorical refutation here (very thorough, in the abstract) would be a lot more damning if there wasn't, you know, video evidence of this rootkit collecting exactly this data and sending it back.