8 ms·

So, you weren't forced and instead opted out is what you're saying here in your opening sentence?

btown 4y ago
I think the deeper question is: Are you truly being allowed to opt out if you can't disable (or aren't ever prompted to disable without knowing an arcane set of menus) the UI elements (e.g. the aforementioned prompts on password fields, or the prompt to install an app whenever opening the mobile web version of a site) that serve as an advertisement for the specific service? To be sure, this isn't just restricted to "please install this" dark patterns, and in certain ways it's been central to the ad-supported business model ever since the first television ad was shown on a network channel. But arguably we shouldn't give any of these examples credit for truthfully being "opt out."
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
I guess if you define "forced" as "completely 100% impossible to avoid or prevent" then yes. But I think it's reasonable to say that "forced" is acceptable shorthand for "coerced by dark patterns in such a way that 99% of actual users will end up doing what the vendor wants whether they want to or not".
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  You get prompted once on Windows unless you use Edge again. I don't think that would be considered force either. Force would be like a prompt on every reboot or whenever you opened Firefox.
  - ht85 4y ago
    That's not true. Major patches all have some dialog full of dark pattern suggesting you browse with the most secure, bestest browser. Within the last year I've had multiple family / friends ask me how to get back to their normal browser, not knowing why Edge was now launching by default whenever they clicked a link. Edge even has special behavior to show you the same bullshit when you try to download another browser [1] [2]. But no worries, they might get a slap on the wrist for it. [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-edge-chrome-2008/ https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-edge-chrome-2008/ [2] https://www.debugpoint.com/edge-messages-controversy/ https://www.debugpoint.com/edge-messages-controversy/
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    On windows searching from windows search box opens edge, not the default browser. Edge is advertised in the start menu. Etc.
iggldiggl 4y ago
For a few things (the one thing I'm familiar with is the lock screen if you've left the "show random pretty pictures" option turned on, but I think there are a few more places besides that) Microsoft does force links to open in Edge instead of the default browser.
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  - Any links from many Microsoft apps (including searches in the Start Menu that silently turn into web searches) - PDFs (sometimes, even if you don't have Edge set as your default PDF app) (even though Edge is actually the least unusable non-paid PDF viewer for Windows) Besides that, Edge will randomly reset itself as the default on updates.
  - russnes 4y ago
    For PDFs you should try this bad boy https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf
    - RunSet 4y ago
      SumatraPDF singlehandedly makes the format readable for me. The alternatives are complete rubbish- in other words, worthy of Adobe.
    - InitialLastName 4y ago
      Sumatra is a phenomenal viewer, but its annotation management is miles short of the "write directly on the page" convenience that Edge achieves.

I think the deeper question is: Are you truly being allowed to opt out if you can't disable (or aren't ever prompted to disable without knowing an arcane set of menus) the UI elements (e.g. the aforementioned prompts on password fields, or the prompt to install an app whenever opening the mobile web version of a site) that serve as an advertisement for the specific service? To be sure, this isn't just restricted to "please install this" dark patterns, and in certain ways it's been central to the ad-supported business model ever since the first television ad was shown on a network channel. But arguably we shouldn't give any of these examples credit for truthfully being "opt out."

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

I guess if you define "forced" as "completely 100% impossible to avoid or prevent" then yes. But I think it's reasonable to say that "forced" is acceptable shorthand for "coerced by dark patterns in such a way that 99% of actual users will end up doing what the vendor wants whether they want to or not".

encryptluks2 4y ago
You get prompted once on Windows unless you use Edge again. I don't think that would be considered force either. Force would be like a prompt on every reboot or whenever you opened Firefox.
- ht85 4y ago
  That's not true. Major patches all have some dialog full of dark pattern suggesting you browse with the most secure, bestest browser. Within the last year I've had multiple family / friends ask me how to get back to their normal browser, not knowing why Edge was now launching by default whenever they clicked a link. Edge even has special behavior to show you the same bullshit when you try to download another browser [1] [2]. But no worries, they might get a slap on the wrist for it. [1] https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-edge-chrome-2008/ https://www.xda-developers.com/microsoft-edge-chrome-2008/ [2] https://www.debugpoint.com/edge-messages-controversy/ https://www.debugpoint.com/edge-messages-controversy/
- dmitriid 4y ago
  On windows searching from windows search box opens edge, not the default browser. Edge is advertised in the start menu. Etc.

iggldiggl 4y ago

For a few things (the one thing I'm familiar with is the lock screen if you've left the "show random pretty pictures" option turned on, but I think there are a few more places besides that) Microsoft does force links to open in Edge instead of the default browser.

InitialLastName 4y ago
- Any links from many Microsoft apps (including searches in the Start Menu that silently turn into web searches) - PDFs (sometimes, even if you don't have Edge set as your default PDF app) (even though Edge is actually the least unusable non-paid PDF viewer for Windows) Besides that, Edge will randomly reset itself as the default on updates.
- russnes 4y ago
  For PDFs you should try this bad boy https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf https://github.com/sumatrapdfreader/sumatrapdf
  - RunSet 4y ago
    SumatraPDF singlehandedly makes the format readable for me. The alternatives are complete rubbish- in other words, worthy of Adobe.
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    Sumatra is a phenomenal viewer, but its annotation management is miles short of the "write directly on the page" convenience that Edge achieves.