7 ms·

This is just another "not MY LOTR". It's a show, plenty of people can like it and this attitude is quite insufferable. It's OK to not like a show, but you can't

This is just another "not MY LOTR". It's a show, plenty of people can like it and this attitude is quite insufferable. It's OK to not like a show, but you can't just gake-keep something and say it's "BAD". If people think this is bad, then they truly haven't see a bad tv show - with bad effects, bad writing, bad delivery, bad acting, continuity errors, and so on. > Rings of Power Is Dull Some TV shows are slower than others. > Example the First: The Dwarven Test of Endurance Durin commands the other dwarves, and was punishing a friend for imagined or otherwise misdeeds. I'm pretty sure he can do what he wants with his own agency. > Example the Second: Galadriel Sword Troll Thing I can't see this as anything else than sexism - there was no complaints at the absolute insanity that Legolas did in the LOTR trilogy. > Example the Third: Broken Hobbit Ankle These aren't people living in the modern world. Why apply our sense of fairness or compassion. The author even says we wouldn't be able to understand what the middle ages were like. > I'm Not Watching More LOTR films were not as Tolkien wrote. I recently re-watched them and they're not perfect either, to heap praise on the films but scorn the TV series is looking back with rose tinted glasses at best. > The violence in this show is way too explicit. Again, perhaps the author should revisit the original film trilogy because it was certainly violent.

pessimizer 4y ago
> you can't just gake-keep something and say it's "BAD". You definitely can. It's better to just defend the show if you like it, rather than telling other people what they can and can't do.
- flumpcakes 4y ago
  > rather than telling other people what they can and can't do. You should take your own advice.
parkingrift 4y ago
>I can't see this as anything else than sexism - there was no complaints at the absolute insanity that Legolas did in the LOTR trilogy. Incredible that you were able to go back and verify that "The Bottom Feeder" had not complained about the absurd depictions of Legolas in the LOTR trilogy. Alas, more misogynists and bigots!
rockemsockem 4y ago
Having an opinion is not gatekeeping. Telling someone they aren't allowed to have an opinion about something unless their opinion passes your muster is gatekeeping
cloverich 4y ago
> there was no complaints at the absolute insanity that Legolas did in the LOTR trilogy. Eh, I very explicitly remember them going over board with him and talking w/ friends how it really took us out of the movie. Same thing with Yoda in episode 2 (I think?) where he's flying around like a ninja. Feels like the movie stopped and some exec swooped in "BUT WHAT IF HE WAS A NINJA MAKE IT HAPPEN!" I felt the same thing with that fight scene. And I think author did a pretty good job of explaining why it was off putting (because it felt shallow). For me personally I might re-phase to say it felt childish. Leader of a group of warriors goes and fights this huge ancient scary thing, they are all worthless and get beat up (but seem totally unharmed?), she swoops in and insta kills it while doing backflips without being touched by it. It just feels like something an 8 year old would write.
karencarits 4y ago
I think some of the point he is making is that, for Tolkien, destiny and inherent character really mattered. In his world, words _matter_. Some vows simply cannot be broken and a lot of the tragedies in the Silmarillion are due to hasty or careless words. I am reminded of this quote by Gildor: "Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all counsels may run ill." Galadriel and Legolas are very different characters in more ways than just sex and ignoring those differences makes the characters more superficial. I read the critique as suggesting another kind of sexism in play: that Galadriel had to be portraited similar to Legolas (in a kind of macho way) to be seen as powerful, rather than exploring the traits that Tolkien gave her. For example, when I read the books, Galadriel gave me associations to Virgin Mary - and for Tolkien, a resemblance to Virgin Mary would be the greatest honor for any character, far more than being competent with a sword I agree with you that the films also contained violence - and the author does not deny this. But I agree with the author that some of the scenes are more explicit than necessary and they made me too uncomfortable
- cygx 4y ago
  However, note that Galadriel is supposed to be over six feet tall, and her Teleri name is Nerwen - man-maiden - because she used to tussle with the boys back in the day. She's "a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth" and "she was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats".
  - mcv 4y ago
    Yeah, I have absolutely no problem with Galadriel fighting. I do have a problem with her being dismissed as a nobody by her nephew the king, her getting on that boat without Celeborn, or her trying to swing across an entire ocean. I know that she's athletic, but there's just no logic in any of that. I do understand why they did it: they wanted her to end up in Numenor. But they did that in a poor way, and for poor reasons, because the destruction of Numenor isn't supposed to happen until millennia later. The rings haven't even been forged yet!
mcv 4y ago
> bad writing There are examples of bad writing in here. But you're right; it's not all bad. And effects, acting, etc are generally pretty good. Though not great. (Except Disa; she's great.) > I can't see this as anything else than sexism The complaints about Galadriel aren't sexism. At least, the legitimate complaints aren't. If anything, the show undersells her. She should be one of the three most powerful elves in Middle-Earth right now. She ruled Lindon and rules Eregion, and yet her nephew the high-king dismisses her like she's a nobody. And she acts rather irrationally much of the time. I think the main complaint about the troll fight isn't that she's the one to kill it (because of course she is), but that the other elves are so completely useless. > LOTR films were not as Tolkien wrote. I recently re-watched them and they're not perfect either, to heap praise on the films but scorn the TV series is looking back with rose tinted glasses at best. The LotR films are really pretty good. By no means perfect, you're right about that, but they treat the source material with a lot more respect than The Hobbit or the Rings of Power did, and the result is a much better story. It was made with love, and you can tell. I can forgive Osgiliath (even if I still miss the Scouring of the Shire).

pessimizer 4y ago

> you can't just gake-keep something and say it's "BAD". You definitely can. It's better to just defend the show if you like it, rather than telling other people what they can and can't do.

flumpcakes 4y ago
> rather than telling other people what they can and can't do. You should take your own advice.

parkingrift 4y ago

>I can't see this as anything else than sexism - there was no complaints at the absolute insanity that Legolas did in the LOTR trilogy. Incredible that you were able to go back and verify that "The Bottom Feeder" had not complained about the absurd depictions of Legolas in the LOTR trilogy. Alas, more misogynists and bigots!

rockemsockem 4y ago

Having an opinion is not gatekeeping. Telling someone they aren't allowed to have an opinion about something unless their opinion passes your muster is gatekeeping

cloverich 4y ago

> there was no complaints at the absolute insanity that Legolas did in the LOTR trilogy. Eh, I very explicitly remember them going over board with him and talking w/ friends how it really took us out of the movie. Same thing with Yoda in episode 2 (I think?) where he's flying around like a ninja. Feels like the movie stopped and some exec swooped in "BUT WHAT IF HE WAS A NINJA MAKE IT HAPPEN!" I felt the same thing with that fight scene. And I think author did a pretty good job of explaining why it was off putting (because it felt shallow). For me personally I might re-phase to say it felt childish. Leader of a group of warriors goes and fights this huge ancient scary thing, they are all worthless and get beat up (but seem totally unharmed?), she swoops in and insta kills it while doing backflips without being touched by it. It just feels like something an 8 year old would write.

karencarits 4y ago

I think some of the point he is making is that, for Tolkien, destiny and inherent character really mattered. In his world, words _matter_. Some vows simply cannot be broken and a lot of the tragedies in the Silmarillion are due to hasty or careless words. I am reminded of this quote by Gildor: "Elves seldom give unguarded advice, for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all counsels may run ill." Galadriel and Legolas are very different characters in more ways than just sex and ignoring those differences makes the characters more superficial. I read the critique as suggesting another kind of sexism in play: that Galadriel had to be portraited similar to Legolas (in a kind of macho way) to be seen as powerful, rather than exploring the traits that Tolkien gave her. For example, when I read the books, Galadriel gave me associations to Virgin Mary - and for Tolkien, a resemblance to Virgin Mary would be the greatest honor for any character, far more than being competent with a sword I agree with you that the films also contained violence - and the author does not deny this. But I agree with the author that some of the scenes are more explicit than necessary and they made me too uncomfortable

cygx 4y ago
However, note that Galadriel is supposed to be over six feet tall, and her Teleri name is Nerwen - man-maiden - because she used to tussle with the boys back in the day. She's "a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth" and "she was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats".
- mcv 4y ago
  Yeah, I have absolutely no problem with Galadriel fighting. I do have a problem with her being dismissed as a nobody by her nephew the king, her getting on that boat without Celeborn, or her trying to swing across an entire ocean. I know that she's athletic, but there's just no logic in any of that. I do understand why they did it: they wanted her to end up in Numenor. But they did that in a poor way, and for poor reasons, because the destruction of Numenor isn't supposed to happen until millennia later. The rings haven't even been forged yet!

mcv 4y ago

> bad writing There are examples of bad writing in here. But you're right; it's not all bad. And effects, acting, etc are generally pretty good. Though not great. (Except Disa; she's great.) > I can't see this as anything else than sexism The complaints about Galadriel aren't sexism. At least, the legitimate complaints aren't. If anything, the show undersells her. She should be one of the three most powerful elves in Middle-Earth right now. She ruled Lindon and rules Eregion, and yet her nephew the high-king dismisses her like she's a nobody. And she acts rather irrationally much of the time. I think the main complaint about the troll fight isn't that she's the one to kill it (because of course she is), but that the other elves are so completely useless. > LOTR films were not as Tolkien wrote. I recently re-watched them and they're not perfect either, to heap praise on the films but scorn the TV series is looking back with rose tinted glasses at best. The LotR films are really pretty good. By no means perfect, you're right about that, but they treat the source material with a lot more respect than The Hobbit or the Rings of Power did, and the result is a much better story. It was made with love, and you can tell. I can forgive Osgiliath (even if I still miss the Scouring of the Shire).