5 ms·

Basically he doesn't feel transported to a genuine lived in "honor bound" world. I remember when the big debates over the Star Wars prequels started, one argum

Basically he doesn't feel transported to a genuine lived in "honor bound" world. I remember when the big debates over the Star Wars prequels started, one argument in defense was that basically they were for kids and older fans hated them because they hated they were no longer children and could no longer feel the story beats and world it created so strongly due to a decreased sense of imagination and wonderment. I thought that was a lame deflection at the time but now that as the author has said, Fantasy/SciFi genre exercises dominate all of pop culture and I'm older I got to say I think that was 100% correct.

IgorPartola 4y ago
I would take a more nuanced approach. I saw Star Wars as a kid (but not in the US), and I thought it was novel and interesting. But I was in my late teens when I saw the prequels. They didn’t strike me as being more sophisticated than the originals. The world was not made more believable by making it feel larger. Instead it still felt like a kids movie(s) but now attempting to be more than that and failing at it. In other words, it failed at staying a great kids movie that adults can enjoy (and before you say that’s impossible, there are plenty of examples of it, from Pixar movies to live action ones). At the same time it failed to become a really sophisticated movie for adults: the world building was half assed, the characters still not multi-dimensional, the story was full of plot holes. I think this is the problem with dual purposing movies for both kids and adults: you can’t have intricate politics in kids movies and you can’t have simplistic world building in adult movies.
chongli 4y ago
due to a decreased sense of imagination and wonderment I don't know about that. I didn't read the Harry Potter series until my 30's and I absolutely loved it. Full of imagination and wonderment, I was utterly captivated. I've also re-read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings multiple times throughout my life and it seems to get better every time. I'm pretty cynical about big budget movies and TV shows in general though. I prefer shows where all the emphasis is placed on the writing and acting, such as Better Call Saul.
iepathos 4y ago
They are poorly written, filled with painful to watch cliches and lines. Can say this is definitely wrong since there have been subsequent starwars shows that don't suck like the movies did even for adult long-time fans. Don't need to be a kid to appreciate good fantasy/scifi with imagination and wonderment, just need to be a kid to be blind to bad writing.
yojo 4y ago
I have not seen the show. I don’t have a horse in this. But I think the author’s point was more general: the world and the actions of the characters don’t make any sense. The honor culture thing is a fantasy trope, and you need to either follow it, or replace it with a different value system. He claims the show does neither. Some people are happy to watch badasses swing swords at things. Other people are interested in character development, world building, and storytelling. He is saying the show panders to the first group while neglecting the second.
- Calavar 4y ago
  Like the recent Star Wars movies. The action scenes were immaculate, but the character develoment was half baked, and plotwise it teetered on the edge between paying homage to the original trilogy and just recycling the same plot with a different coat of paint. Some people say that hardcore fans will hate on any new adaptation, regardless of content. But the few SciFi movies that actually did commit to narrative focus and believable characters got rave reviews from the same crowd. Dune and the Blade Runner sequel come to mind.
  - mcv 4y ago
    Dune, Bladerunner, but also The Mandalorian, for a Star Wars example. When Star Trek was rebooted as The Next Generation, and followed up with DS9 and Voyager; those shows were all great. Mad Max Fury Road got rave reviews. It is absolutely possible to do justice to existing properties, and to write new great stories in them. But existing successful properties also seem to attract writers who are just looking to milk the franchise's reputation for a quick buck. The story you're telling should be able to stand on its own without the big name attached. If it can't do that, it doesn't deserve the big name.
  - leetcrew 4y ago
    > The action scenes were immaculate they really weren't... the choreography of the big lightsaber fight in the last jedi is mediocre at best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3HMz25LvnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3HMz25LvnY you could almost pick a lightsaber fight at random from the prequels and it would be way better than what's linked above. but here are a couple examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onRnL6MBunU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onRnL6MBunU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJFjNu51IQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJFjNu51IQ george lucas did a lot of dumb things in the prequels, but by god he cared about the fight choreography.

IgorPartola 4y ago

I would take a more nuanced approach. I saw Star Wars as a kid (but not in the US), and I thought it was novel and interesting. But I was in my late teens when I saw the prequels. They didn’t strike me as being more sophisticated than the originals. The world was not made more believable by making it feel larger. Instead it still felt like a kids movie(s) but now attempting to be more than that and failing at it. In other words, it failed at staying a great kids movie that adults can enjoy (and before you say that’s impossible, there are plenty of examples of it, from Pixar movies to live action ones). At the same time it failed to become a really sophisticated movie for adults: the world building was half assed, the characters still not multi-dimensional, the story was full of plot holes. I think this is the problem with dual purposing movies for both kids and adults: you can’t have intricate politics in kids movies and you can’t have simplistic world building in adult movies.

chongli 4y ago

due to a decreased sense of imagination and wonderment I don't know about that. I didn't read the Harry Potter series until my 30's and I absolutely loved it. Full of imagination and wonderment, I was utterly captivated. I've also re-read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings multiple times throughout my life and it seems to get better every time. I'm pretty cynical about big budget movies and TV shows in general though. I prefer shows where all the emphasis is placed on the writing and acting, such as Better Call Saul.

iepathos 4y ago

They are poorly written, filled with painful to watch cliches and lines. Can say this is definitely wrong since there have been subsequent starwars shows that don't suck like the movies did even for adult long-time fans. Don't need to be a kid to appreciate good fantasy/scifi with imagination and wonderment, just need to be a kid to be blind to bad writing.

yojo 4y ago

I have not seen the show. I don’t have a horse in this. But I think the author’s point was more general: the world and the actions of the characters don’t make any sense. The honor culture thing is a fantasy trope, and you need to either follow it, or replace it with a different value system. He claims the show does neither. Some people are happy to watch badasses swing swords at things. Other people are interested in character development, world building, and storytelling. He is saying the show panders to the first group while neglecting the second.

Calavar 4y ago
Like the recent Star Wars movies. The action scenes were immaculate, but the character develoment was half baked, and plotwise it teetered on the edge between paying homage to the original trilogy and just recycling the same plot with a different coat of paint. Some people say that hardcore fans will hate on any new adaptation, regardless of content. But the few SciFi movies that actually did commit to narrative focus and believable characters got rave reviews from the same crowd. Dune and the Blade Runner sequel come to mind.
- mcv 4y ago
  Dune, Bladerunner, but also The Mandalorian, for a Star Wars example. When Star Trek was rebooted as The Next Generation, and followed up with DS9 and Voyager; those shows were all great. Mad Max Fury Road got rave reviews. It is absolutely possible to do justice to existing properties, and to write new great stories in them. But existing successful properties also seem to attract writers who are just looking to milk the franchise's reputation for a quick buck. The story you're telling should be able to stand on its own without the big name attached. If it can't do that, it doesn't deserve the big name.
- leetcrew 4y ago
  > The action scenes were immaculate they really weren't... the choreography of the big lightsaber fight in the last jedi is mediocre at best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3HMz25LvnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3HMz25LvnY you could almost pick a lightsaber fight at random from the prequels and it would be way better than what's linked above. but here are a couple examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onRnL6MBunU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onRnL6MBunU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJFjNu51IQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJFjNu51IQ george lucas did a lot of dumb things in the prequels, but by god he cared about the fight choreography.