4 ms·

Non-sense. Why is this anger channeled to individual police officers? The people of SF voted for the policies that they're now suffering from.

tristor 4y ago
Most of my ire (as a non-resident) is because I am forced to sometimes spend time in San Francisco, and it is a worse experience than nearly any other city I've visited in the world, which are many, most of them in vastly poorer and more generally corrupt societies, that somehow manage to be more functional and cleaner than SF.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  At some point it begs the question if it is a problem with the police or with the people. I have spent time in some incredibly poor countries where police are essentially non-existent. Theft is low because people individually believe that it is unacceptable Behavior. They are raised this way and a critical mass of parents, friends, and acquaintances perpetuate this value. Individuals themselves reject thievery as a solution to their problems. I don't know how to get back to that from where we are today
  - tristor 4y ago
    I concur with your assessment, and I'll add one additional thing to that assessment, most of these incredibly poor countries are religious and use the church as a community third-space. I believe San Francisco has replaced it's reverence for God with reverence for meaningless politics, and there is no third-place for the community. These may not be the causative factors, but certainly they speak to some differences that may affect the outcomes.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      I don't think that religion is the only source of self respect, but do agree that the loss of community 3rd spaces with community values is a big part part of it. This shift is not confined to religion, but can be seen in almost every non-digital community that exists. They left a vacuum which was filled by anger, jealousy, narcissism, entitlement, and even more consumerism than before.
googlryas 4y ago
Yeah, at a certain point, if you see everyone(or every cop) doing or not doing something, you need to ask what the incentives are or what is wrong with the system which they are working in. I'm not familiar with SF, but in my little liberal-city-overrun-with-homeless-drug-addicts, the cops want to arrest more criminals, but the people they arrest get released immediately back out to the public again, so it's sort of like, why even bother?
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  No, complete misdirection. Scapegoating and loathing over cops is barking at the wrong tree. It also takes crucial attention that’s much needed to correct terrible progressive policies and further perpetuates them. This is a time for introspection of the type of government structures and leadership, not knee-jerk reaction. Probably feels satisfying to call cops pigs and donut munchers but that’s the lowest blow you can strike. It is time for progressives to start looking inwards and resist the urge to scape goat Capitalism, Cops, Inequality, etc. Study from how good governing cities look like and learn from it. Educate the public. Purge administrative class that delivers nothing for the taxes people pay.
sha256sum 4y ago
I recall once, I believe it would have been around 2014, watching approximately 50 SFPD officers, in full riot gear, patrolling a socialist worker's march--of less than 100 people--peacefully walking down Mission St. I have no idea from what perspective your argument comes from. Frankly, I don't think you do, either. But I think in speaking to any resident of San Francisco you will hear many trends like this relating to lopsided (mis)use of police resources, and it comes in many flavors.

tristor 4y ago

Most of my ire (as a non-resident) is because I am forced to sometimes spend time in San Francisco, and it is a worse experience than nearly any other city I've visited in the world, which are many, most of them in vastly poorer and more generally corrupt societies, that somehow manage to be more functional and cleaner than SF.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
At some point it begs the question if it is a problem with the police or with the people. I have spent time in some incredibly poor countries where police are essentially non-existent. Theft is low because people individually believe that it is unacceptable Behavior. They are raised this way and a critical mass of parents, friends, and acquaintances perpetuate this value. Individuals themselves reject thievery as a solution to their problems. I don't know how to get back to that from where we are today
- tristor 4y ago
  I concur with your assessment, and I'll add one additional thing to that assessment, most of these incredibly poor countries are religious and use the church as a community third-space. I believe San Francisco has replaced it's reverence for God with reverence for meaningless politics, and there is no third-place for the community. These may not be the causative factors, but certainly they speak to some differences that may affect the outcomes.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    I don't think that religion is the only source of self respect, but do agree that the loss of community 3rd spaces with community values is a big part part of it. This shift is not confined to religion, but can be seen in almost every non-digital community that exists. They left a vacuum which was filled by anger, jealousy, narcissism, entitlement, and even more consumerism than before.

googlryas 4y ago

Yeah, at a certain point, if you see everyone(or every cop) doing or not doing something, you need to ask what the incentives are or what is wrong with the system which they are working in. I'm not familiar with SF, but in my little liberal-city-overrun-with-homeless-drug-addicts, the cops want to arrest more criminals, but the people they arrest get released immediately back out to the public again, so it's sort of like, why even bother?

systemvoltage 4y ago
No, complete misdirection. Scapegoating and loathing over cops is barking at the wrong tree. It also takes crucial attention that’s much needed to correct terrible progressive policies and further perpetuates them. This is a time for introspection of the type of government structures and leadership, not knee-jerk reaction. Probably feels satisfying to call cops pigs and donut munchers but that’s the lowest blow you can strike. It is time for progressives to start looking inwards and resist the urge to scape goat Capitalism, Cops, Inequality, etc. Study from how good governing cities look like and learn from it. Educate the public. Purge administrative class that delivers nothing for the taxes people pay.

sha256sum 4y ago

I recall once, I believe it would have been around 2014, watching approximately 50 SFPD officers, in full riot gear, patrolling a socialist worker's march--of less than 100 people--peacefully walking down Mission St. I have no idea from what perspective your argument comes from. Frankly, I don't think you do, either. But I think in speaking to any resident of San Francisco you will hear many trends like this relating to lopsided (mis)use of police resources, and it comes in many flavors.