5 ms·

The article implies that sourdough is relatively new. Wasn't sourdough the only way to make bread for most of human history? Even in the Bible, "leaven" was d

by ijidak 4y ago

The article implies that sourdough is relatively new. Wasn't sourdough the only way to make bread for most of human history? Even in the Bible, "leaven" was dough that was already undergoing fermentation, that they would bury in new dough. (Luke 13:21, Galatians 5:9)

Avshalom 4y ago
It's how you'd have started things but then you selectively grow less sour yeast strains until you have what you want for bread/beer.
fsckboy 4y ago
regular yeast dough also works that way, it doesn't need to be "sour" dough for the yeast culture to munch on the new dough food, so that evidence alone is not definitive.
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  The sour note comes from the lactobacillaceae and develops with a long (usually cold-retarded) ferments, not the yeast itself. A short warm ferment provides very little of the signature sour taste. A prolonged (2--3 day) cold ferment can be quite sharp. And a pre-ferment or poolish can develop a more sour note using baker's yeast.
dredmorbius 4y ago
That's not my read. Just that sourdough was not typical of American baking at the time (mid-19th century): In 1849, when gold miners began arriving in San Francisco, most Americans didn’t bake or eat sourdough bread. American bakers typically leavened their bread with “barm” (a yeast derived from beer brewing) or one of several relatively new commercial yeast products. From TFA. Whether or not sourdough was prevalent or not relative to barm (often a synonym for sourdough) isn't clear. Google's Ngram Viewer is ... interesting if not especially clear. "Barm" is the leading term from the 1600s through the early 19th century, where "sourdough" becomes the dominant term around 1920: <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=barm%2Csourdough&year_start=1600&year_end=2000&case_insensitive=on&corpus=en-2012&smoothing=10 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=barm%2Csourdou...> (I'm not confident that "barm" refers strictly to leaven, and sampling some of the 17th century results shows ... numerous Dutch and German texts....)
WaitWaitWha 4y ago
Correct. Sourdough is wild yeast (usually Saccharomyces exiguous) and lactobacillaceae. Today's commercial yeast is usually Saccharomyces cerevisiae (instant, active dry, . The leaven you talking about is called "mother dough", basically a chunk of dough from previous baking. I find the article wanting. To make sourdough starter one needs water, flour, and time. That is it.

by ijidak 4y ago

Avshalom 4y ago

It's how you'd have started things but then you selectively grow less sour yeast strains until you have what you want for bread/beer.

fsckboy 4y ago

regular yeast dough also works that way, it doesn't need to be "sour" dough for the yeast culture to munch on the new dough food, so that evidence alone is not definitive.

dredmorbius 4y ago
The sour note comes from the lactobacillaceae and develops with a long (usually cold-retarded) ferments, not the yeast itself. A short warm ferment provides very little of the signature sour taste. A prolonged (2--3 day) cold ferment can be quite sharp. And a pre-ferment or poolish can develop a more sour note using baker's yeast.

dredmorbius 4y ago

That's not my read. Just that sourdough was not typical of American baking at the time (mid-19th century): In 1849, when gold miners began arriving in San Francisco, most Americans didn’t bake or eat sourdough bread. American bakers typically leavened their bread with “barm” (a yeast derived from beer brewing) or one of several relatively new commercial yeast products. From TFA. Whether or not sourdough was prevalent or not relative to barm (often a synonym for sourdough) isn't clear. Google's Ngram Viewer is ... interesting if not especially clear. "Barm" is the leading term from the 1600s through the early 19th century, where "sourdough" becomes the dominant term around 1920: <https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=barm%2Csourdough&year_start=1600&year_end=2000&case_insensitive=on&corpus=en-2012&smoothing=10 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=barm%2Csourdou...> (I'm not confident that "barm" refers strictly to leaven, and sampling some of the 17th century results shows ... numerous Dutch and German texts....)

WaitWaitWha 4y ago

Correct. Sourdough is wild yeast (usually Saccharomyces exiguous) and lactobacillaceae. Today's commercial yeast is usually Saccharomyces cerevisiae (instant, active dry, . The leaven you talking about is called "mother dough", basically a chunk of dough from previous baking. I find the article wanting. To make sourdough starter one needs water, flour, and time. That is it.