5 ms·

David Byrne, Philip Glass, Allen Ginsberg on the outsider art of Arthur Russell

65 points by tintinnabula 4y ago

earthscienceman 4y ago
"outsider art", like a lot of labels for artists (or labels in general?), is pretty fraught with issues. But that doesn't take away from how great a lot of Arthur Russel's music is. "I never get lonesome" is one of the most fascinating takes on an aspect of the human experience, words about something I have felt so strongly but never heard put to paper. His voice is wonderful.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  "Outsider art" rubs me the wrong way because defining it seems like an exercise in gatekeeping. What is the wall that divides the two? Social connections, maybe educational background. Acknowledging something as outsider art is fundamentally condescending. It says that while the work has artistic merit, can be recognized as art, it nevertheless must be qualified as coming from outside the anointed clique.
  - coldtea 4y ago
    >What is the wall that divides the two? Social connections, maybe educational background. So? Any definition is based on a wall that divides the thing defined from other things... >It says that while the work has artistic merit, can be recognized as art, it nevertheless must be qualified as coming from outside the anointed clique. Well, that's factual (it does come outside the anointed clique). And as many other things, it can be useful to know, when placing the artwork in perspective.
    - CallingCalliope 4y ago
      Zen and the art of motorcycling. Can Quality be described or is beauty in the eye of the beholder, maybe more, if your in the pecking order of domestication it applies.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      "must be qualified" is subjective, not factual. Nothing bad will happen if artists simply abstain from calling other artists outsiders.
      - coldtea 4y ago
        >is subjective, not factual. That's fine, it still doesn't mean "anything goes". Not all subjective things are "just personal taste".
- dfxm12 4y ago
  Yeah, outsider art's dictionary definition would imply Russell has no formal training (like, e.g. Wesley Willis), but that's not really the case. I wish colloquially we more strongly enforced a difference between this and using "outsider" as an easy way to say something isn't "in", either commercially or critically.
mtalantikite 4y ago
Whenever I'm out walking around NYC and it starts raining I put on "World of Echo". It's a great accompaniment.
davidro80 4y ago
MichaelCollins 4y ago
davidro80's [dead] comment seems to be factually accurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg#Association_with_NAMBLA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg#Association_wit...
- michaelwww 4y ago
  I think davidro80's comment was too black or white and an attempt to shut down discussion. Those type of comments usually get downvoted on HN. I can admire Ginsberg's "Howl" without approving of his personal life, but I understand some can't get past it.
  - davidro80 4y ago
    [dead]
- sp332 4y ago
  The comment was not flagged. That account was hellbanned after its 3rd comment, three months ago.
legerdemain 4y ago
Bizarrely, I was turned on to Arthur Russell's music via random Pandora dice-rolling (I think via the completely unrelated Penguin Cafe Orchestra). His music is definitely both personal and idiosyncratic.
danem 4y ago
For any disco fans out there, Arthur Russell and David Byrne collaborated on this[1] track. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O92UBBaiI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O92UBBaiI4 [2] A better mix (without Byrne): https://soundcloud.com/fattyfattyphonographics/kiss-me-again-pablo-and-shoey https://soundcloud.com/fattyfattyphonographics/kiss-me-again...
ipnon 4y ago
He may be the most influential musician from Iowa ever.

65 points by tintinnabula 4y ago

"outsider art", like a lot of labels for artists (or labels in general?), is pretty fraught with issues. But that doesn't take away from how great a lot of Arthur Russel's music is. "I never get lonesome" is one of the most fascinating takes on an aspect of the human experience, words about something I have felt so strongly but never heard put to paper. His voice is wonderful.

MichaelCollins 4y ago
"Outsider art" rubs me the wrong way because defining it seems like an exercise in gatekeeping. What is the wall that divides the two? Social connections, maybe educational background. Acknowledging something as outsider art is fundamentally condescending. It says that while the work has artistic merit, can be recognized as art, it nevertheless must be qualified as coming from outside the anointed clique.
- coldtea 4y ago
  >What is the wall that divides the two? Social connections, maybe educational background. So? Any definition is based on a wall that divides the thing defined from other things... >It says that while the work has artistic merit, can be recognized as art, it nevertheless must be qualified as coming from outside the anointed clique. Well, that's factual (it does come outside the anointed clique). And as many other things, it can be useful to know, when placing the artwork in perspective.
  - CallingCalliope 4y ago
    Zen and the art of motorcycling. Can Quality be described or is beauty in the eye of the beholder, maybe more, if your in the pecking order of domestication it applies.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    "must be qualified" is subjective, not factual. Nothing bad will happen if artists simply abstain from calling other artists outsiders.
    - coldtea 4y ago
      >is subjective, not factual. That's fine, it still doesn't mean "anything goes". Not all subjective things are "just personal taste".
dfxm12 4y ago
Yeah, outsider art's dictionary definition would imply Russell has no formal training (like, e.g. Wesley Willis), but that's not really the case. I wish colloquially we more strongly enforced a difference between this and using "outsider" as an easy way to say something isn't "in", either commercially or critically.

mtalantikite 4y ago

Whenever I'm out walking around NYC and it starts raining I put on "World of Echo". It's a great accompaniment.

davidro80 4y ago

MichaelCollins 4y ago

davidro80's [dead] comment seems to be factually accurate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg#Association_with_NAMBLA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Ginsberg#Association_wit...

michaelwww 4y ago
I think davidro80's comment was too black or white and an attempt to shut down discussion. Those type of comments usually get downvoted on HN. I can admire Ginsberg's "Howl" without approving of his personal life, but I understand some can't get past it.
- davidro80 4y ago
  [dead]
sp332 4y ago
The comment was not flagged. That account was hellbanned after its 3rd comment, three months ago.

legerdemain 4y ago

Bizarrely, I was turned on to Arthur Russell's music via random Pandora dice-rolling (I think via the completely unrelated Penguin Cafe Orchestra). His music is definitely both personal and idiosyncratic.

danem 4y ago

For any disco fans out there, Arthur Russell and David Byrne collaborated on this[1] track. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O92UBBaiI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O92UBBaiI4 [2] A better mix (without Byrne): https://soundcloud.com/fattyfattyphonographics/kiss-me-again-pablo-and-shoey https://soundcloud.com/fattyfattyphonographics/kiss-me-again...

ipnon 4y ago

He may be the most influential musician from Iowa ever.