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I've heard of two ways one might cheat in chess. This analysis covers receiving engine moves, but does not address the other accusation, stealing opponents' pre

I've heard of two ways one might cheat in chess. This analysis covers receiving engine moves, but does not address the other accusation, stealing opponents' prep work.

buzzdenver 4y ago
Stealing prep might work in something like a world championship game where the two participants play dozen or more games. It would be much harder to steal the prep of half of your opponents in a round robin tournament. Also, if you assume that Niemann is cheating and his real rating is 2450, not high 2600s like it is officially now, then no amount of prep stealing will make him competitive with Magnus.
- Mizza 4y ago
  But that's literally the situation. He did beat Magnus, claims that he happened to study deep into a fairly esoteric line that Magnus played, then seemed unfamiliar with the variations of it when asked about it in a later interview. Magnus seems to think Neimann's coach - another cheater - got information about Magnus' team's preparation.
  - buzzdenver 4y ago
    That explains one game, but he consistently seems to play at the high 2600 level.
Elhana 4y ago
I guess when doing prep work, you analyze most of the top moves computer would suggest, so simply stealing it won't help that much, unless you really missed something. You'd need to find some move/line that your opponent has not prepared, analyze it deeper than he did and hope that actual game goes exactly as planned to implement it. The deeper it goes into a game - less chances you end up with that position on the board. Also accusing someone should be backed by some kind of proof. Even a subpar player with some luck might memorize something a computer would suggest and implement it, despite that it is way over his expected level, yet not getting actual suggestions during a game. Is that cheating? There are lots of videos on youtube like "This trap will help you win lots of games", that 600 elo player can memorize and then get labeled as cheater, coz it's way over his elo level. Next step would be to ponder whether computer assisted prep in general is cheating or not, really.
Double_a_92 4y ago
There is even a third, which would be pretty much undetectable. The engine only alerts him when he has to specially focus on the next move. That way he knows when to be careful, but he still needs to figure out what exactly to do on his own.
- achr2 4y ago
  Exactly, if he has any form of binary signal to alert him when there simply *exists* a move that gives him advantage, that's all that is necessary to have an extreme edge.

I've heard of two ways one might cheat in chess. This analysis covers receiving engine moves, but does not address the other accusation, stealing opponents' prep work.

buzzdenver 4y ago

Stealing prep might work in something like a world championship game where the two participants play dozen or more games. It would be much harder to steal the prep of half of your opponents in a round robin tournament. Also, if you assume that Niemann is cheating and his real rating is 2450, not high 2600s like it is officially now, then no amount of prep stealing will make him competitive with Magnus.

Mizza 4y ago
But that's literally the situation. He did beat Magnus, claims that he happened to study deep into a fairly esoteric line that Magnus played, then seemed unfamiliar with the variations of it when asked about it in a later interview. Magnus seems to think Neimann's coach - another cheater - got information about Magnus' team's preparation.
- buzzdenver 4y ago
  That explains one game, but he consistently seems to play at the high 2600 level.

Elhana 4y ago

I guess when doing prep work, you analyze most of the top moves computer would suggest, so simply stealing it won't help that much, unless you really missed something. You'd need to find some move/line that your opponent has not prepared, analyze it deeper than he did and hope that actual game goes exactly as planned to implement it. The deeper it goes into a game - less chances you end up with that position on the board. Also accusing someone should be backed by some kind of proof. Even a subpar player with some luck might memorize something a computer would suggest and implement it, despite that it is way over his expected level, yet not getting actual suggestions during a game. Is that cheating? There are lots of videos on youtube like "This trap will help you win lots of games", that 600 elo player can memorize and then get labeled as cheater, coz it's way over his elo level. Next step would be to ponder whether computer assisted prep in general is cheating or not, really.

Double_a_92 4y ago

There is even a third, which would be pretty much undetectable. The engine only alerts him when he has to specially focus on the next move. That way he knows when to be careful, but he still needs to figure out what exactly to do on his own.

achr2 4y ago
Exactly, if he has any form of binary signal to alert him when there simply *exists* a move that gives him advantage, that's all that is necessary to have an extreme edge.