4 ms·

Am I missing something? I just read the wikipedia page to figure out what kanban is(a back pressure notification mechanism for logistics) and two things jumped

by somat 4y ago

Am I missing something? I just read the wikipedia page to figure out what kanban is(a back pressure notification mechanism for logistics) and two things jumped out at me. 1. Does software have logistics? Sort of, but it is nothing like most logistics, there is never a limited supply of things, and things are not consumed on use, anything you are waiting on is a one time r & d item. 2. Is there any need to have a back pressure system for a single user? Or has language shifted and kanban is now just the term for a specific variant of todo list?

nisegami 4y ago
>Or has language shifted and kanban is now just the term for a specific variant of todo list? Yes
quadrifoliate 4y ago
> Is there any need to have a back pressure system for a single user? I don't think the fundamentals of the system change because of a single user. Life is logistics. If I have a lot of stuff in the HOLD state, it might indicate that my life is super busy, and give me some areas where I should perhaps set up automation for those tasks, or see if I can make behavioral changes to avoid those. For example, there's a city trip plan in the author's screenshot. Assume there were 5 or 6 more. If you find yourself planning trips to a bunch of cities but never actually taking them (I have personally been in this situation a few times), then perhaps the Kanban board can reveal that bottleneck.
Waterluvian 4y ago
Ignore all the jargon and analysis and just consider: is a todo list possibly more effective when divided up into states of completion/activity? I’ve been doing it this way for a good 15 years now (albeit just with a markdown/notepad file) and it’s been ridiculously effective. Especially in school.
rgoulter 4y ago
Some people use the word "agile" as a noun, supposedly taking inspiration from the "manifesto for agile software development". -- In this sense, 'kanban board' just means "todo list arranged in columns". A description of kanban (as applied to software development) that I did like was what it wanted to emphasise: 1. Maximize flow. - If work flows, there's more assurance that work will get done. 2. Minimize work in progress. Either a worker is working on something, or they're idle. Either a task is being worked on, or it's not making progress. 3. Visualise work in progress. - If many tasks aren't seeing progress, then visualising the work in progress is a way to show the bottlenecks in a process, which might restrict flow. (e.g. do reviews take too long, or are blocked on some key person; some key stakeholder needed for some review or some deployment, etc.). I think if no constraints are put on picking up work in progress, then a kanban board is just a todo list with columns.
- layer8 4y ago
  It’s a bit like a linear Petri net.
TrueSlacker0 4y ago
For most people I see it as the language has shifted to be a fancy todo list variant, designed more for team communication, by middle management. "A goal of the kanban system is to limit the buildup of excess inventory at any point in production" [1] I would also add that its goal is to switch all work from push to pull, which is a concept both odd to understand and hard to totally achieve. Take the concept of a Kanban card(meaning signal card) [1]. It is great in the physical world of production but not as easy to understand in the digital world of mental work. This physical card can be used to control a simple task such as ordering inventory, as well as a large task of producing a complicated piece of machinery. Take the simple inventory idea and think of your pantry. You have two bags (two bin system) of coffee beans and you place a kanban card behind the first bag. Once you finish using the first bag you will see the card and set it in the pile of other cards (pulled) because this pile becomes your grocery list. Then when you go to the store you don't have to go through your pantry looking for what all you need to get(pushing), you know because its on the cards, past you did the work, and you still have enough from the second bag will which will last until you go to the store. You end up reducing your unused inventory with everything set to a low par(1 extra bag), and by not purchasing an extra bag because you forgot to look and cannot remember if you need it or not so you get it just in case. Now your pantry is too small and you plan your pantry expansion project because you NEED more storage space. So when this idea got converted from physical to digital the goal of the board is really to reduce work in process and switch from push (developers writing useless features, writers writing the wrong docs, artists working on art for a canceled project, etc) to pull (planned releases, features based on customer requests, bug fixing over new features, etc). > 1. Does software have logistics? Absolutely, there is a limited supply of mental capacity in people. Their productive capacity is consumed via meetings, working on the wrong tasks, spreading their work over too many tasks, email, breaking flow via people asking useless questions such as what is the status of X, etc. > 2. Is there any need to have a back pressure system for a single user? How else do you know exactly what to do? What item do you get from the grocery store? If you have no way of the customer telling you what to work on? What to fix? What to build? At the end of the day we are building for the customer and need to build what they want most. But back to the board itself I think it boils down to most people having to much WIP causing this board to be a fancy todo list that is organized but ultimately overwhelming and just as useless. But again at least it is organized. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban#Kanban_(cards) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban#Kanban_(cards)

by somat 4y ago

nisegami 4y ago

>Or has language shifted and kanban is now just the term for a specific variant of todo list? Yes

quadrifoliate 4y ago

> Is there any need to have a back pressure system for a single user? I don't think the fundamentals of the system change because of a single user. Life is logistics. If I have a lot of stuff in the HOLD state, it might indicate that my life is super busy, and give me some areas where I should perhaps set up automation for those tasks, or see if I can make behavioral changes to avoid those. For example, there's a city trip plan in the author's screenshot. Assume there were 5 or 6 more. If you find yourself planning trips to a bunch of cities but never actually taking them (I have personally been in this situation a few times), then perhaps the Kanban board can reveal that bottleneck.

Waterluvian 4y ago

Ignore all the jargon and analysis and just consider: is a todo list possibly more effective when divided up into states of completion/activity? I’ve been doing it this way for a good 15 years now (albeit just with a markdown/notepad file) and it’s been ridiculously effective. Especially in school.

rgoulter 4y ago

Some people use the word "agile" as a noun, supposedly taking inspiration from the "manifesto for agile software development". -- In this sense, 'kanban board' just means "todo list arranged in columns". A description of kanban (as applied to software development) that I did like was what it wanted to emphasise: 1. Maximize flow. - If work flows, there's more assurance that work will get done. 2. Minimize work in progress. Either a worker is working on something, or they're idle. Either a task is being worked on, or it's not making progress. 3. Visualise work in progress. - If many tasks aren't seeing progress, then visualising the work in progress is a way to show the bottlenecks in a process, which might restrict flow. (e.g. do reviews take too long, or are blocked on some key person; some key stakeholder needed for some review or some deployment, etc.). I think if no constraints are put on picking up work in progress, then a kanban board is just a todo list with columns.

layer8 4y ago
It’s a bit like a linear Petri net.

TrueSlacker0 4y ago

For most people I see it as the language has shifted to be a fancy todo list variant, designed more for team communication, by middle management. "A goal of the kanban system is to limit the buildup of excess inventory at any point in production" [1] I would also add that its goal is to switch all work from push to pull, which is a concept both odd to understand and hard to totally achieve. Take the concept of a Kanban card(meaning signal card) [1]. It is great in the physical world of production but not as easy to understand in the digital world of mental work. This physical card can be used to control a simple task such as ordering inventory, as well as a large task of producing a complicated piece of machinery. Take the simple inventory idea and think of your pantry. You have two bags (two bin system) of coffee beans and you place a kanban card behind the first bag. Once you finish using the first bag you will see the card and set it in the pile of other cards (pulled) because this pile becomes your grocery list. Then when you go to the store you don't have to go through your pantry looking for what all you need to get(pushing), you know because its on the cards, past you did the work, and you still have enough from the second bag will which will last until you go to the store. You end up reducing your unused inventory with everything set to a low par(1 extra bag), and by not purchasing an extra bag because you forgot to look and cannot remember if you need it or not so you get it just in case. Now your pantry is too small and you plan your pantry expansion project because you NEED more storage space. So when this idea got converted from physical to digital the goal of the board is really to reduce work in process and switch from push (developers writing useless features, writers writing the wrong docs, artists working on art for a canceled project, etc) to pull (planned releases, features based on customer requests, bug fixing over new features, etc). > 1. Does software have logistics? Absolutely, there is a limited supply of mental capacity in people. Their productive capacity is consumed via meetings, working on the wrong tasks, spreading their work over too many tasks, email, breaking flow via people asking useless questions such as what is the status of X, etc. > 2. Is there any need to have a back pressure system for a single user? How else do you know exactly what to do? What item do you get from the grocery store? If you have no way of the customer telling you what to work on? What to fix? What to build? At the end of the day we are building for the customer and need to build what they want most. But back to the board itself I think it boils down to most people having to much WIP causing this board to be a fancy todo list that is organized but ultimately overwhelming and just as useless. But again at least it is organized. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban#Kanban_(cards) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban#Kanban_(cards)