4 ms·

U.S. has sent private warnings to Russia against using a nuclear weapon

7 points by acqbu 4y ago

acqbu 4y ago
https://archive.ph/WSmHh https://archive.ph/WSmHh
tomohawk 4y ago
If only Biden understood the concept of deterence. This whole thing could have been avoided.
- whirlingDiamond 4y ago
  If only Trump's actions hadn't weakened Ukraine, divided NATO, emboldened Putin and helped get us to where we are today
  - tomohawk 4y ago
    Trump weakened Ukraine? He was the first president to provide lethal aid to Ukraine after 2014. Obama refused to do that, supplying blankets instead. Divided NATO? He was a strong voice calling for NATO members to live up to their obligations, particularly Germany. He warned Germany about becoming dependent on Putin for energy. This is not the actions of someone being divisive, but rather the actions of someone who cares enough to say the hard things. Emboldened Putin? He was the only president to actually deter Putin. George Bush did not deter Putin, and Putin took a chunk of Georgia. Obama did not deter Putin, and Putin took a big chunk of Ukraine. And when Putin took months to marshal a huge military combined force to attack Ukrain again, what did Biden do? He pulled out all US personnel, and pulled a Chicken Little routine. That, coupled with the catastrophically inept withdrawal from Afghanistan had to have been pretty inviting to Putin. How could he think otherwise?
goatsneez 4y ago
Future historians (if there will be any) will analyze this period of time (last 10-15 years) having the luxury of 'abstand' for the diplomatic blunders, ideological blindness supported by new found capability of waging propaganda on its own citizens (by both sides) lead to this situation, which in in turn, without any uncertainty what so ever leads to a major (WW) clash within few months (nuclear war is not only not off the table, it is, by remarks from RUS and USA almost an inevitability. (this are just words to us, but the inner rapture of sadness that this is indeed coming cannot be communicated). I always wondered as a kid reading or learning about WWs how come nobody wanted to stop it. Why the elites are so eager for blood of other country's "peasants" (for those are the people who die), and even more so I wondered why are people willing to go and die for the elites. Clearly, as and adults I still do not have (the key) the answers. (Sure, states are not sentient entities, the expression I use is for convenience only).
- superchroma 4y ago
  Well, what Russia shows us is that there is a class of people who do not get to choose whether they fight in a war or not, as they're poor and without options. It also shows us that there are many who talk a fierce talk and then react with horror when they're conscripted. People are cruel, ignorant and do not apply nearly enough of their capacity for empathy.
mmastrac 4y ago
As someone who grew up in the 1980s and 90s in North America, I have to say I'm blessed to have had an ultra-stable local geopolitical environment. It gave us the opportunity to really focus on raising the level of social awareness and fixing long-standing issues with equality on many levels. The question of whether things over-corrected is obviously a hot topic but we cannot ignore how a period of effectively 30 years of local peace improved the overall progressive maturity of our western society. It might also be an open question as to whether we exported our problems, or took advantage of other, poorer countries as stepping stones to get where we are. I won't argue that the western world didn't make the world worse in other places (and the debt we owe to those places because of it). I don't suppose I have a conclusion, other than "things are complicated" and the hope that "we" (as in humanity) can improve things for people around the world. I also hope that losses in this terrible war ends up with Russia on the path to modernization and a brighter future. It might take a long time for them to get there, but this could be the first step in rebuilding -- akin to Germany's walloping in the 40s.
- superchroma 4y ago
  It seems to me that Americans got played on this front. Racism and prejudice where it counts is still alive and well, albeit often in a suit or living out of sight now. It's often not out, loud and proud anymore, but, arguably, short of lynchings, at least that kind was easy to spot and avoid. Much harder to deduce people's inner positions now that we're all running mini PR operations. Social causes also got co-opted by corporations who happily surfed from wave to wave and skated past accountability to their causes they were attaching themselves to. In the meantime, the US economy is a shambles, the average quality of education is spectacularly bad and the future doesn't seem to have a strong upward trend at this time. People's attitudes generally are not good.

7 points by acqbu 4y ago

acqbu 4y ago

https://archive.ph/WSmHh https://archive.ph/WSmHh

tomohawk 4y ago

If only Biden understood the concept of deterence. This whole thing could have been avoided.

whirlingDiamond 4y ago
If only Trump's actions hadn't weakened Ukraine, divided NATO, emboldened Putin and helped get us to where we are today
- tomohawk 4y ago
  Trump weakened Ukraine? He was the first president to provide lethal aid to Ukraine after 2014. Obama refused to do that, supplying blankets instead. Divided NATO? He was a strong voice calling for NATO members to live up to their obligations, particularly Germany. He warned Germany about becoming dependent on Putin for energy. This is not the actions of someone being divisive, but rather the actions of someone who cares enough to say the hard things. Emboldened Putin? He was the only president to actually deter Putin. George Bush did not deter Putin, and Putin took a chunk of Georgia. Obama did not deter Putin, and Putin took a big chunk of Ukraine. And when Putin took months to marshal a huge military combined force to attack Ukrain again, what did Biden do? He pulled out all US personnel, and pulled a Chicken Little routine. That, coupled with the catastrophically inept withdrawal from Afghanistan had to have been pretty inviting to Putin. How could he think otherwise?

goatsneez 4y ago

Future historians (if there will be any) will analyze this period of time (last 10-15 years) having the luxury of 'abstand' for the diplomatic blunders, ideological blindness supported by new found capability of waging propaganda on its own citizens (by both sides) lead to this situation, which in in turn, without any uncertainty what so ever leads to a major (WW) clash within few months (nuclear war is not only not off the table, it is, by remarks from RUS and USA almost an inevitability. (this are just words to us, but the inner rapture of sadness that this is indeed coming cannot be communicated). I always wondered as a kid reading or learning about WWs how come nobody wanted to stop it. Why the elites are so eager for blood of other country's "peasants" (for those are the people who die), and even more so I wondered why are people willing to go and die for the elites. Clearly, as and adults I still do not have (the key) the answers. (Sure, states are not sentient entities, the expression I use is for convenience only).

superchroma 4y ago
Well, what Russia shows us is that there is a class of people who do not get to choose whether they fight in a war or not, as they're poor and without options. It also shows us that there are many who talk a fierce talk and then react with horror when they're conscripted. People are cruel, ignorant and do not apply nearly enough of their capacity for empathy.

mmastrac 4y ago

As someone who grew up in the 1980s and 90s in North America, I have to say I'm blessed to have had an ultra-stable local geopolitical environment. It gave us the opportunity to really focus on raising the level of social awareness and fixing long-standing issues with equality on many levels. The question of whether things over-corrected is obviously a hot topic but we cannot ignore how a period of effectively 30 years of local peace improved the overall progressive maturity of our western society. It might also be an open question as to whether we exported our problems, or took advantage of other, poorer countries as stepping stones to get where we are. I won't argue that the western world didn't make the world worse in other places (and the debt we owe to those places because of it). I don't suppose I have a conclusion, other than "things are complicated" and the hope that "we" (as in humanity) can improve things for people around the world. I also hope that losses in this terrible war ends up with Russia on the path to modernization and a brighter future. It might take a long time for them to get there, but this could be the first step in rebuilding -- akin to Germany's walloping in the 40s.

superchroma 4y ago
It seems to me that Americans got played on this front. Racism and prejudice where it counts is still alive and well, albeit often in a suit or living out of sight now. It's often not out, loud and proud anymore, but, arguably, short of lynchings, at least that kind was easy to spot and avoid. Much harder to deduce people's inner positions now that we're all running mini PR operations. Social causes also got co-opted by corporations who happily surfed from wave to wave and skated past accountability to their causes they were attaching themselves to. In the meantime, the US economy is a shambles, the average quality of education is spectacularly bad and the future doesn't seem to have a strong upward trend at this time. People's attitudes generally are not good.