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How about letting the at risk people decide for themselves what to do? Not a lot of old people want to die alone isolated in a nursing home with no visitation….

How about letting the at risk people decide for themselves what to do? Not a lot of old people want to die alone isolated in a nursing home with no visitation…. Which is exactly what we did. Let we tried to saved grandma only to (literally) kill her from loneliness and isolation. Absolutely disgusting how many so-called “smart rational” people dismissed it… as if Covid was literally the only thing that mattered and anybody who pointed it out was nothing more than a Fox News watching selfish asshole. To this day people will defend letting people die alone in a hospital or nursing home with only some crappy video conference as a substitute for real human contact. It takes a special kind of monster to support the crap we did to the elderly. There are a worryingly large set of people I used to respect that turned out to be monsters.

SamPatt 4y ago
While I agree it's horrific, I would urge you to reconsider whether or not people who supported such policies were monsters. That's exactly the dehumanizing language that was used about people who were skeptical of lockdowns and other dissidents. I think they were normal people who were overcome with fear and placed too much trust in authority. Weak-minded, perhaps, but that doesn't make them monsters.
- sul_tasto 4y ago
  It’s called the banality of evil. Monsters don’t have green fur and big teeth. They are ordinary people carrying out devastating policies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
> How about letting the at risk people decide for themselves what to do? So I ask again, what would the circumstances have to be for "letting the at risk people decide for themselves" to be an unacceptable policy? What fatality level, transmission mechanism or whatever would have to be present for you to accept that some sort of centralized public health policy was required?
- sul_tasto 4y ago
  I’m not sure there should be a threshold. If the threat is real, like ebola, people will naturally adjust their behavior. If policy makers have to artificially restrict individual rights, it indicates that policies are being implemented based on a single variable (covid lives saved), to the detriment of all other important considerations. This slippery slope should not be underestimated.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    > If the threat is real, like ebola, 1M americans died of COVID-19. That's a real threat, too. So the difference with Ebola is not really to do with the "reality" of the threat, but the manner and rapidity of death, along with the fatality rate. > If policy makers have to artificially restrict individual rights, it indicates that policies are being implemented based on a single variable I do not see how you can draw this conclusion.
OrvalWintermute 4y ago
> Not a lot of old people want to die alone isolated in a nursing home with no visitation…. Which is exactly what we did. Let we tried to saved grandma only to (literally) kill her from loneliness and isolation. I agree with you, but we did worse actually. Some states actually sequestered covid positive patients, and covid suspected cases at nursing homes with highly at risk populations. We know who covid kills: People with advanced age and multiple comorbidities. The same type of folks you find at nursing homes. Those governors that did that - in my mind they are guilty of murder. For those of you that want to fact check this, I will save you the trouble. https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/cuomo-sent-6300-covid-19-patients-to-nursing-homes-amid-pandemic/ https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/cuomo-sent-6300-covid-19-patie... https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/9000-covid-patients-were-sent-from-ny-hospitals-into-nursing-homes-records-show/2884682/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/9000-covid-patie... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/five-governors-cuomo-covid-19-positive-patients-nursing-homes https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/five-governors-cuomo... https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/06/16/michigan-gov-whitmer-defends-placing-covid-19-patients-in-nursing-homes-with-healthy-residents/ https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/06/16/michiga... https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/04/whitmer-orders-nursing-homes-to-transfer-coronavirus-patients-to-separate-units-or-special-facilities.html https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/04/whitmer-orders... https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/05/murphy-administration-ignored-cdc-advice-and-sent-covid-19-patients-to-nursing-homes-mulshine.html https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/05/murphy-administration-ign...

SamPatt 4y ago

While I agree it's horrific, I would urge you to reconsider whether or not people who supported such policies were monsters. That's exactly the dehumanizing language that was used about people who were skeptical of lockdowns and other dissidents. I think they were normal people who were overcome with fear and placed too much trust in authority. Weak-minded, perhaps, but that doesn't make them monsters.

sul_tasto 4y ago
It’s called the banality of evil. Monsters don’t have green fur and big teeth. They are ordinary people carrying out devastating policies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

> How about letting the at risk people decide for themselves what to do? So I ask again, what would the circumstances have to be for "letting the at risk people decide for themselves" to be an unacceptable policy? What fatality level, transmission mechanism or whatever would have to be present for you to accept that some sort of centralized public health policy was required?

sul_tasto 4y ago
I’m not sure there should be a threshold. If the threat is real, like ebola, people will naturally adjust their behavior. If policy makers have to artificially restrict individual rights, it indicates that policies are being implemented based on a single variable (covid lives saved), to the detriment of all other important considerations. This slippery slope should not be underestimated.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  > If the threat is real, like ebola, 1M americans died of COVID-19. That's a real threat, too. So the difference with Ebola is not really to do with the "reality" of the threat, but the manner and rapidity of death, along with the fatality rate. > If policy makers have to artificially restrict individual rights, it indicates that policies are being implemented based on a single variable I do not see how you can draw this conclusion.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago

> Not a lot of old people want to die alone isolated in a nursing home with no visitation…. Which is exactly what we did. Let we tried to saved grandma only to (literally) kill her from loneliness and isolation. I agree with you, but we did worse actually. Some states actually sequestered covid positive patients, and covid suspected cases at nursing homes with highly at risk populations. We know who covid kills: People with advanced age and multiple comorbidities. The same type of folks you find at nursing homes. Those governors that did that - in my mind they are guilty of murder. For those of you that want to fact check this, I will save you the trouble. https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/cuomo-sent-6300-covid-19-patients-to-nursing-homes-amid-pandemic/ https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/cuomo-sent-6300-covid-19-patie... https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/9000-covid-patients-were-sent-from-ny-hospitals-into-nursing-homes-records-show/2884682/ https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/9000-covid-patie... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/five-governors-cuomo-covid-19-positive-patients-nursing-homes https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/five-governors-cuomo... https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/06/16/michigan-gov-whitmer-defends-placing-covid-19-patients-in-nursing-homes-with-healthy-residents/ https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/06/16/michiga... https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/04/whitmer-orders-nursing-homes-to-transfer-coronavirus-patients-to-separate-units-or-special-facilities.html https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/04/whitmer-orders... https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/05/murphy-administration-ignored-cdc-advice-and-sent-covid-19-patients-to-nursing-homes-mulshine.html https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/05/murphy-administration-ign...