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This is exciting, but I think I'm most excited about learning to make self-sufficient and self-replicating colonies in space. If we focus on settling planets,

This is exciting, but I think I'm most excited about learning to make self-sufficient and self-replicating colonies in space. If we focus on settling planets, then each planet is its own set of problems. But if we focus on learning to live in space, then although it may be harder initially, it's a single problem to solve. Then we just keep working and improving on that solution. And there's a lot more space out there than there are habitable planets. And there's a lot more matter and energy out there than are available on those planets.

bee_rider 4y ago
I don't really understand the idea of colonizing a planet. If it is going to be totally independent of Earth, you'll have to set up the entire industrial base and population of that planet. If it is going to be economically linked to Earth, then we're going to have to deal with shipping stuff there. And, like, what will they sell to Earth? I guess it would have to be really valuable and specific to that planet, to justify manufacturing it there and then lifting it out of a massive gravity well. Space colonies at least have the hypothetical benefit of zero-g industry, aren't downwell, and can move around. Space colonies in the asteroid belt are the way to go, IMO.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Always thinking of the making all the stuff. And I mean literally all the stuff, everything needed during life. In probably more hostile environment than we live. Probably would get old rather fast...
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  Too many people believe you can colonise planets with the modern equivalent of a horse and covered wagon. You can't. It's much, much harder than that. Getting to any kind of self-sufficiency anywhere is going to be incredibly difficult. You literally have to invent a complete industrial production chain for materials, machinery, and food and air that operates in a completely different and much more hostile physical environment with a completely different mix of available raw materials, much less solar energy, and no initial biosphere.
  - koheripbal 4y ago
    You added a bunch of constraints there which equate it to colonizing an uninhabitable planet like Mars.
    - bee_rider 4y ago
      If you are picking from inside our solar system, you are pretty much limited to Venus or somewhere that gets less solar radiation than Earth. Apparently the clouds of Venus are relatively habitable (in the sense that they aren't the hellscape of the surface of that planet, or the nearly oxygen free wasteland that is Mars). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus#Aerostat_habitats_and_floating_cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus#Aerostat... Colonizing planets outside the solar system seems to require some sort of sci-fi technology just to get there, so it is hard to speculate. If we're going to assume we can somehow get to Alpha Centauri, we might as well also assume that when we get there we can use nanobot magic or whatever to transform the colonists into an alternative form that is compatible with whatever environment we find there.
      - koheripbal 4y ago
        > If you are picking from inside our solar system That, again, is a pretty big new constraint you are placing to make an argument. Since we're talking about exo-planets, that's not a reasonable constraint in this conversation. > Colonizing planets outside the solar system seems to require some sort of sci-fi technology Yes - yet that's the context of this thread.
        bee_rider 4y ago
        The article was about the search for life, so clearly we're off on a tangent here if we are talking about space colonization. I guess I assumed it was about semi-realistic space colonization, because the comment that kicked it off talked about the solving problems -- if we have magical sci-fi technology there's no reason to talk about this, because we have no way to speculate which problems will have an automatic sci-fi answer. Anyway, if you pick apart the problems described in the first post you responded to, you'll find, I think, that the only restriction imposed by limiting the discussion to planets inside the solar system is the "less solar energy."
dylan604 4y ago
>then each planet is its own set of problems yes, but we already know how to solve these problems. living in an atmosphere on terra firma with resources is something we can do. >although it may be harder initially, it's a single problem to solve hmm, and as of now these are unobtainable solutions: unlimited power source, radiation shielding, etc. so unless one of these planets has a more advanced race that can share how to get over these little hurdles, this plan is just sci-fi

bee_rider 4y ago

I don't really understand the idea of colonizing a planet. If it is going to be totally independent of Earth, you'll have to set up the entire industrial base and population of that planet. If it is going to be economically linked to Earth, then we're going to have to deal with shipping stuff there. And, like, what will they sell to Earth? I guess it would have to be really valuable and specific to that planet, to justify manufacturing it there and then lifting it out of a massive gravity well. Space colonies at least have the hypothetical benefit of zero-g industry, aren't downwell, and can move around. Space colonies in the asteroid belt are the way to go, IMO.

Ekaros 4y ago
Always thinking of the making all the stuff. And I mean literally all the stuff, everything needed during life. In probably more hostile environment than we live. Probably would get old rather fast...
TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
Too many people believe you can colonise planets with the modern equivalent of a horse and covered wagon. You can't. It's much, much harder than that. Getting to any kind of self-sufficiency anywhere is going to be incredibly difficult. You literally have to invent a complete industrial production chain for materials, machinery, and food and air that operates in a completely different and much more hostile physical environment with a completely different mix of available raw materials, much less solar energy, and no initial biosphere.
- koheripbal 4y ago
  You added a bunch of constraints there which equate it to colonizing an uninhabitable planet like Mars.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    If you are picking from inside our solar system, you are pretty much limited to Venus or somewhere that gets less solar radiation than Earth. Apparently the clouds of Venus are relatively habitable (in the sense that they aren't the hellscape of the surface of that planet, or the nearly oxygen free wasteland that is Mars). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus#Aerostat_habitats_and_floating_cities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus#Aerostat... Colonizing planets outside the solar system seems to require some sort of sci-fi technology just to get there, so it is hard to speculate. If we're going to assume we can somehow get to Alpha Centauri, we might as well also assume that when we get there we can use nanobot magic or whatever to transform the colonists into an alternative form that is compatible with whatever environment we find there.
    - koheripbal 4y ago
      > If you are picking from inside our solar system That, again, is a pretty big new constraint you are placing to make an argument. Since we're talking about exo-planets, that's not a reasonable constraint in this conversation. > Colonizing planets outside the solar system seems to require some sort of sci-fi technology Yes - yet that's the context of this thread.
      - bee_rider 4y ago
        The article was about the search for life, so clearly we're off on a tangent here if we are talking about space colonization. I guess I assumed it was about semi-realistic space colonization, because the comment that kicked it off talked about the solving problems -- if we have magical sci-fi technology there's no reason to talk about this, because we have no way to speculate which problems will have an automatic sci-fi answer. Anyway, if you pick apart the problems described in the first post you responded to, you'll find, I think, that the only restriction imposed by limiting the discussion to planets inside the solar system is the "less solar energy."

dylan604 4y ago

>then each planet is its own set of problems yes, but we already know how to solve these problems. living in an atmosphere on terra firma with resources is something we can do. >although it may be harder initially, it's a single problem to solve hmm, and as of now these are unobtainable solutions: unlimited power source, radiation shielding, etc. so unless one of these planets has a more advanced race that can share how to get over these little hurdles, this plan is just sci-fi