4 ms·

> it became politicized "Politicized" is a funny word. When people talk about "democratizing" something, it is all "everyone's voices must be heard!" and "we a

> it became politicized "Politicized" is a funny word. When people talk about "democratizing" something, it is all "everyone's voices must be heard!" and "we all come together!" and sunshine and rainbows. But when ordinary citizens and their duly elected representatives try to use the political process to effect policy—supposedly the essence of "democracy," as I was taught in grade school… "How dare you politicize this issue! Stupid peasants, don't you know you are supposed to blindly follow every diktat of our unelected expert class! The nerve, to think government is supposed to be responsive to your desires"

SamPatt 4y ago
That's because the political arena is supposed to have limits. Those limits in America are clearly expressed in restrictions on the state's power, in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. If ordinary citizens and their duly elected representatives are all clambering to remove those limits during times of turmoil, we absolutely have a right to decry politics crossing a line it was never meant to cross.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  That's a good way of putting it, even though I disagree with your implication that implementing public health guidance was the political "line" was crossed. My take is that in the (maybe distant) past, facts and observable events were beyond the line that politics should cross. If anyone could observe something was happening, then politics had no business stepping in and distorting that reality. We could all see that people were dying of COVID. It was indeed real, and an observable crisis. But politics stepped in and crossed the "reality distortion line" and it became a valid political opinion to deny reality and fight the messengers of that reality. In their view, reality was political, and we should just ignore COVID and act, and that would somehow produce a different reality where COVID didn't exist. A quote from the Bush administration, widely believed to be from Karl Rove, summarized this politicization of facts: "The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' [...] 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'." The movie "Don't Look Up" really nailed how we now seem to respond politically to factual, observable crises, and how non-political facts become "politicized."
  - Georgelemental 4y ago
    > fight the messengers of that reality The "public health experts" are not angels of God, infallible messengers of Reality itself come down from Heaven to deliver the Gospel Of The Science to an unworthy populace. They are fallible human beings, they made many mistakes and their priorities don't always align with everyone else's. The inalienable rights of man, as re-affirmed in the First Amendment, give everyone the right to worship whomever they wish however they wish; I am therefore free to deny Saint Anthony of Bethesda's divinity as loudly and publicly as I desire. As for the movie, I haven't seen it, but I enjoyed this review of it: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/movie-review-dont-look-up https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/movie-review-dont-look...
- Georgelemental 4y ago
  Of course, democracy should never infringe on the inalienable rights of man, and any proper republic has mechanisms to limit the passions of the mob. I simply find it amusing that the same political movement that so often claims to want to "defend democracy" everywhere (voting rights for felons, making courts more "accountable" through court-packing, eliminating the Electoral College, etc) is also the one that does the most complaining about issues being "politicized" whenever the democratic process disagrees with the unprinicpled, unaccountable expert class consensus.

SamPatt 4y ago

That's because the political arena is supposed to have limits. Those limits in America are clearly expressed in restrictions on the state's power, in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. If ordinary citizens and their duly elected representatives are all clambering to remove those limits during times of turmoil, we absolutely have a right to decry politics crossing a line it was never meant to cross.

ryandrake 4y ago
That's a good way of putting it, even though I disagree with your implication that implementing public health guidance was the political "line" was crossed. My take is that in the (maybe distant) past, facts and observable events were beyond the line that politics should cross. If anyone could observe something was happening, then politics had no business stepping in and distorting that reality. We could all see that people were dying of COVID. It was indeed real, and an observable crisis. But politics stepped in and crossed the "reality distortion line" and it became a valid political opinion to deny reality and fight the messengers of that reality. In their view, reality was political, and we should just ignore COVID and act, and that would somehow produce a different reality where COVID didn't exist. A quote from the Bush administration, widely believed to be from Karl Rove, summarized this politicization of facts: "The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' [...] 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'." The movie "Don't Look Up" really nailed how we now seem to respond politically to factual, observable crises, and how non-political facts become "politicized."
- Georgelemental 4y ago
  > fight the messengers of that reality The "public health experts" are not angels of God, infallible messengers of Reality itself come down from Heaven to deliver the Gospel Of The Science to an unworthy populace. They are fallible human beings, they made many mistakes and their priorities don't always align with everyone else's. The inalienable rights of man, as re-affirmed in the First Amendment, give everyone the right to worship whomever they wish however they wish; I am therefore free to deny Saint Anthony of Bethesda's divinity as loudly and publicly as I desire. As for the movie, I haven't seen it, but I enjoyed this review of it: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/movie-review-dont-look-up https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/movie-review-dont-look...
Georgelemental 4y ago
Of course, democracy should never infringe on the inalienable rights of man, and any proper republic has mechanisms to limit the passions of the mob. I simply find it amusing that the same political movement that so often claims to want to "defend democracy" everywhere (voting rights for felons, making courts more "accountable" through court-packing, eliminating the Electoral College, etc) is also the one that does the most complaining about issues being "politicized" whenever the democratic process disagrees with the unprinicpled, unaccountable expert class consensus.