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You obviously know more about this than I do, but when I watch a a well encoded Blu-ray that doesn't use Dolby Vision like Planet Earth 2, and I compare that to

You obviously know more about this than I do, but when I watch a a well encoded Blu-ray that doesn't use Dolby Vision like Planet Earth 2, and I compare that to a dolby vision encoded disc, I fail to see a noticeable difference. And when I rip the RPU of a disc that uses dolby vision and look at some of the data [1], I again don't see enough to warrant this being a proprietary system, especially when we have HDR10+. So Dolby may have teams of calibrators and created certifications, at the end of the day I fail to see why this warrants being proprietary. Please let me know what Dolby Vision does better than HDR10+ or regular HDR, because at the end of the day I'm just a hobbyist and want to learn more about this space. [1] https://pastebin.com/m5NfUTbc https://pastebin.com/m5NfUTbc

mvanbaak 4y ago
This all depends on the system used to watch the content. From setting used on tv and avr and player, to the actual hardware. When i watch See and compare the DV version vs plain HDR version on my LG C1 the difference is big
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  Which particular content have you noticed a big difference on? I have an (older) LG OLED, and haven't seen anything in DV that I didn't think would be just as good in HDR10, although I haven't compared the same content in both DV and HDR10 directly.
jiggawatts 4y ago
Roughly speaking, the differences are: Dolby Vision is effectively 12 bit while using only 10 bits for encoding the actual signal. HDR10 is effectively... 10 bit. To achieve the same 12-bits of dynamic range they'd have to come up with a HDR12 format or something. You can think of 8-bit SDR brightness as something like 0 nits to 255 nits of brightness. This is technically wrong because it's a nonlinear curve, but ignore that for a minute. Increasing this to 10 bits like with HDR10 gives you 0..1,023 nits with the same "steps". Going further to 12 bits lets you take this to 4,096 nits while continuing to preserve the same level of gradation. The hiccup with this is that some displays have 600 nits of peak brightness and some have 2,500 nits. There are rare displays that can go to 4,000, and prototype displays that go to 10K nits. HDR10 only goes to 1,000 nits. Dolby Vision goes to 4,000 nits. Does this matter now on some cheap LCD TV that only goes to 600 nits? Probably not. Does it matter on an OLED panel that only goes to 1,000 nits? Maybe, because Dolby Vision has more true-to-life mapping from the maximum range to the display panel range. Will it matter more with next-generation panels capable of 3,000+ nits? Almost certainly. Then again, HDR10+ has dynamic metadata, which compensates a lot for its lower bit depth. Additionally, most smart televisions smooth the "steps" in smooth areas, largely eliminating the artefacts caused by HDR10. At the end of the day, they're both significantly better than SDR, but Dolby Vision is a touch better, especially on high-end panels.
- suzumer 4y ago
  Based on my own research, I don't believe this information is correct. HDR10 video is encoded according to Rec 2100 [1], which states that the video is 10 bits and goes up to 10,000 nits. I know this to be true as I have written my own programs to encode HDR10 video. You are correct however that most HDR10 content is only encoded with a mastering luminance of 1000 nits [2]. According to this [3] forum post, all DV content (besides profile 9) is encoded using 10-bit HEVC stream. When people talk about 12-bit Dolby Vision, they are referring to Profile 7, which contains a full enhancement layer stored at a 1/4th the resolution, which contains the residual between the source and the Base Layer, allowing a player to decode the data to 12 bits. It appears [4], however, that most DV content only uses the minimal enhancement layer, which is only the dynamic metadata. [1] - https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bt/R-REC-BT.2100-2-201807-I!!PDF-E.pdf https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bt/R-REC-BT.2100-2-... [2] - https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision [3] - https://avdisco.com/t/demystifying-dolby-vision-profile-levels-dolby-vision-levels-mel-fel/95 https://avdisco.com/t/demystifying-dolby-vision-profile-leve... [4] - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=16546620&postcount=119 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=16546620&postcount=...
  - jiggawatts 4y ago
    I was oversimplifying on purpose. The standards are complex and have multiple modes. These interact in weird and wonderful ways with hardware capabilities.

mvanbaak 4y ago

This all depends on the system used to watch the content. From setting used on tv and avr and player, to the actual hardware. When i watch See and compare the DV version vs plain HDR version on my LG C1 the difference is big

brokenmachine 4y ago
Which particular content have you noticed a big difference on? I have an (older) LG OLED, and haven't seen anything in DV that I didn't think would be just as good in HDR10, although I haven't compared the same content in both DV and HDR10 directly.

jiggawatts 4y ago

Roughly speaking, the differences are: Dolby Vision is effectively 12 bit while using only 10 bits for encoding the actual signal. HDR10 is effectively... 10 bit. To achieve the same 12-bits of dynamic range they'd have to come up with a HDR12 format or something. You can think of 8-bit SDR brightness as something like 0 nits to 255 nits of brightness. This is technically wrong because it's a nonlinear curve, but ignore that for a minute. Increasing this to 10 bits like with HDR10 gives you 0..1,023 nits with the same "steps". Going further to 12 bits lets you take this to 4,096 nits while continuing to preserve the same level of gradation. The hiccup with this is that some displays have 600 nits of peak brightness and some have 2,500 nits. There are rare displays that can go to 4,000, and prototype displays that go to 10K nits. HDR10 only goes to 1,000 nits. Dolby Vision goes to 4,000 nits. Does this matter now on some cheap LCD TV that only goes to 600 nits? Probably not. Does it matter on an OLED panel that only goes to 1,000 nits? Maybe, because Dolby Vision has more true-to-life mapping from the maximum range to the display panel range. Will it matter more with next-generation panels capable of 3,000+ nits? Almost certainly. Then again, HDR10+ has dynamic metadata, which compensates a lot for its lower bit depth. Additionally, most smart televisions smooth the "steps" in smooth areas, largely eliminating the artefacts caused by HDR10. At the end of the day, they're both significantly better than SDR, but Dolby Vision is a touch better, especially on high-end panels.

suzumer 4y ago
Based on my own research, I don't believe this information is correct. HDR10 video is encoded according to Rec 2100 [1], which states that the video is 10 bits and goes up to 10,000 nits. I know this to be true as I have written my own programs to encode HDR10 video. You are correct however that most HDR10 content is only encoded with a mastering luminance of 1000 nits [2]. According to this [3] forum post, all DV content (besides profile 9) is encoded using 10-bit HEVC stream. When people talk about 12-bit Dolby Vision, they are referring to Profile 7, which contains a full enhancement layer stored at a 1/4th the resolution, which contains the residual between the source and the Base Layer, allowing a player to decode the data to 12 bits. It appears [4], however, that most DV content only uses the minimal enhancement layer, which is only the dynamic metadata. [1] - https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bt/R-REC-BT.2100-2-201807-I!!PDF-E.pdf https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bt/R-REC-BT.2100-2-... [2] - https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/hdr10-vs-dolby-vision [3] - https://avdisco.com/t/demystifying-dolby-vision-profile-levels-dolby-vision-levels-mel-fel/95 https://avdisco.com/t/demystifying-dolby-vision-profile-leve... [4] - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=16546620&postcount=119 https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=16546620&postcount=...
- jiggawatts 4y ago
  I was oversimplifying on purpose. The standards are complex and have multiple modes. These interact in weird and wonderful ways with hardware capabilities.