5 ms·

> pro book banning in libraries I've seen tons of recent support for censorship from ideas and speech the (left? I wouldn't consider it actually left) doesn't

> pro book banning in libraries I've seen tons of recent support for censorship from ideas and speech the (left? I wouldn't consider it actually left) doesn't like. Then you have conservatives moving against these books that promote woke religion and suddenly these same people are very pro free speech.

starik36 4y ago
The "shoe on the other foot" syndrome.
midoridensha 4y ago
>I've seen tons of recent support for censorship from ideas and speech the (left? I wouldn't consider it actually left) doesn't like. The left has always been pro-censorship: Stalin and Mao, for instance, set up societies with lots of censorship. The right is also pro-censorship: think Hitler, or any religious conservatives for that matter.
- AlphaSite 4y ago
  The extreme left and right are both fairly problematic, although for different reasons and to different degrees.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    Well when comparing Hitler, Mao, and Stalin, I don't really see any significant degree of difference... If you're talking about what modern Americans consider "left" and "right", though, I'd agree, but what Americans consider "left" generally isn't very far left, and it depends on who you ask: talk to an internationally-minded American and they'll say the Democratic party is centrist at best, or center-right. Talk to a Trump voter and they'll say that party is "far-left radical communists".
    - snovv_crash 4y ago
      On economic issues and welfare, sure. But when it comes to gender activism the US left is way further over than the rest of the world, to the point that they've alienated a large part of their original support base.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    To different degrees? I'm not sure about that... The right is significantly more dangerous now, but I don't see that as a historically universal truth.
- int_19h 4y ago
  Authoritarians have always been pro-censorship. Libertarians have always been anti-censorship. Both exist on either end of the ideological spectrum. Right-wing authoritarianism is a thing, and so is left-wing libertarianism.
frob 4y ago
There's a huge difference between saying, "LGBT people are people," and "LBGT people should be shunned out of existence." Words have meanings.
- nilespotter 4y ago
  I see, so we allow the ideas that you agree with, and ban the ones you don't. FREE SPEECH!
  - mattigames 4y ago
    I hope that if someone writes a book saying people should physically harm you (yes, specifically you by name and picture) then you will not ask for that person to be put on jail -arguably the worst kind of ban possible- or say anything to stop that book from continuing being published, otherwise you would be an hypocrite for not really following your logic in which words should have no consequences for their authors.
    - biglearner1day 4y ago
      > I hope that if someone writes a book saying people should physically harm you One could argue that calls for gender-affirming surgeries or treatments are equally, if not, worse. These topics are especially prevalent in the LGBTQ community, as I have found from my experience. Nevertheless, we seem to encourage this kind of behavior whereas we. It is important to be aware of which ideas you are rejecting, especially when the community you seem to be defending is also committing acts of the same caliber.
      - mattigames 4y ago
        Banning books that talk against the Holocaust and promoting books that talk about gender-related surgeries are nowhere close in the damage they can potentially create even if you take the most pessimistic stance possible about the later, a sense of proportion is needed in any discussion.

starik36 4y ago

The "shoe on the other foot" syndrome.

midoridensha 4y ago

>I've seen tons of recent support for censorship from ideas and speech the (left? I wouldn't consider it actually left) doesn't like. The left has always been pro-censorship: Stalin and Mao, for instance, set up societies with lots of censorship. The right is also pro-censorship: think Hitler, or any religious conservatives for that matter.

AlphaSite 4y ago
The extreme left and right are both fairly problematic, although for different reasons and to different degrees.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  Well when comparing Hitler, Mao, and Stalin, I don't really see any significant degree of difference... If you're talking about what modern Americans consider "left" and "right", though, I'd agree, but what Americans consider "left" generally isn't very far left, and it depends on who you ask: talk to an internationally-minded American and they'll say the Democratic party is centrist at best, or center-right. Talk to a Trump voter and they'll say that party is "far-left radical communists".
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    On economic issues and welfare, sure. But when it comes to gender activism the US left is way further over than the rest of the world, to the point that they've alienated a large part of their original support base.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  To different degrees? I'm not sure about that... The right is significantly more dangerous now, but I don't see that as a historically universal truth.
int_19h 4y ago
Authoritarians have always been pro-censorship. Libertarians have always been anti-censorship. Both exist on either end of the ideological spectrum. Right-wing authoritarianism is a thing, and so is left-wing libertarianism.

frob 4y ago

There's a huge difference between saying, "LGBT people are people," and "LBGT people should be shunned out of existence." Words have meanings.

nilespotter 4y ago
I see, so we allow the ideas that you agree with, and ban the ones you don't. FREE SPEECH!
- mattigames 4y ago
  I hope that if someone writes a book saying people should physically harm you (yes, specifically you by name and picture) then you will not ask for that person to be put on jail -arguably the worst kind of ban possible- or say anything to stop that book from continuing being published, otherwise you would be an hypocrite for not really following your logic in which words should have no consequences for their authors.
  - biglearner1day 4y ago
    > I hope that if someone writes a book saying people should physically harm you One could argue that calls for gender-affirming surgeries or treatments are equally, if not, worse. These topics are especially prevalent in the LGBTQ community, as I have found from my experience. Nevertheless, we seem to encourage this kind of behavior whereas we. It is important to be aware of which ideas you are rejecting, especially when the community you seem to be defending is also committing acts of the same caliber.
    - mattigames 4y ago
      Banning books that talk against the Holocaust and promoting books that talk about gender-related surgeries are nowhere close in the damage they can potentially create even if you take the most pessimistic stance possible about the later, a sense of proportion is needed in any discussion.