4 ms·

The Disney properties were already self-governing. The Florida legislature revoked that in political retaliation, and passed the cost on to nearby counties.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
As well as the potential revenue, which is immense. The city around Disney could introduce a small sales tax or raise property taxes and their anticipated shortfall would likely be fixed.
- scarface74 4y ago
  The surrounding city didn’t want this to happen https://deadline.com/2022/05/disney-ron-desantis-dont-say-gay-law-special-district-1235016301/ https://deadline.com/2022/05/disney-ron-desantis-dont-say-ga...
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    This isn't the surrounding city, this is a group of "concerned citizens" in the surrounding city - which is a big difference. The citizens of that city will likely be hurt by this, since it may cause a drop in tourist revenue and employment from Disney.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Yes I’m sure other people in the city really want to take on Disney’s debt and want to take responsibility for zoning, police, fire, etc for Disney?
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        The "concerned citizens" likely don't want Disney being adversely affected because it affects their business. Their reasoning has nothing to do with the debt or the responsibility for zoning, etc. The debt is how they are arguing that the government has the same interest as them (and in particular, that there is something illicit going on). By ignoring the potential benefits and pointing out the potential harms, they are trying to get what they want. There would be a huge difference if the city itself were suing, which would indicate that there is actually a problem with the economics of this. If you've ever interacted with local municipal governments in the US, you would know that most municipal government employees would love to take responsibility for the zoning, police, fire, and tax collection at Disney. They would squeeze it for all they can - and they probably will. The concerned citizens (and Disney, who is likely funding their legal case) do not want this squeezing to take place. Make no mistake, that town is only operating at a loss because Disney's accountants are writing its books. They are shifting income to the corporation and losses to the city, so they can take advantage of favorable financing terms available on muni bonds for those losses. If someone adversarial to Disney were to take over the town, the revenue/cost situation would be very different since the two would no longer be working together to shift profits and losses around. We are about to see how different it will be.
        scarface74 4y ago
        Can you point to any article where the local government is salivating over wanting to take over Disney? How does it possibly help the surrounding city? There is a huge movement in the metro Atlanta area to either break off from the larger city or to incorporate county areas so they can have more local control. There is no movement to take over larger responsibilities by the taxpayers.
        pclmulqdq 4y ago
        Most people don't "salivate" publicly. However, they don't seem to mind, and there is no plan to raise taxes on the residents in connection: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2022-05-11/federal-judge-dismisses-florida-taxpayer-lawsuit-against-over-disney-world-district https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/20... This is a biased source (a little too right-leaning for my taste), but it has a few interesting quotes from public officials: https://deadline.com/2022/05/disney-ron-desantis-dont-say-gay-law-special-district-1235016301/ https://deadline.com/2022/05/disney-ron-desantis-dont-say-ga... It helps because Disney in Orlando produces something like $20 billion per year, and owns something like $10-100 billion of property and equipment. All of that is now taxable. It's easy to see how this helps a city: A 1% sales tax would net $200 million, and a property tax would also be in the 8 figures. Police, fire, and other essential services would cost nowhere near this much. Even servicing the debt on $1 billion of bonds would be nowhere near this much. In terms of local politicians, this helps them because someone with $20 billion in revenue will be happy to pay you a $500k bribe (sorry, donation to your re-election fund) to give them favorable rules. I don't know much about the Atlanta metro area, but there have been several cases in the past that I have heard of where rich areas try to break away from larger cities. The cities generally don't want this to happen because these districts are profit centers (this is a reverse of the Disney situation, where a potential profit center would be incorporated into a city). Desires for "local control" are usually about money.
        scarface74 4y ago
        The only mention of it not raising taxes for residence came from DeSantis without anything to back it up. This isn’t something I’m just hearing about from the national news. I bought a second home/investment property in Orange County that will become my legal residence once my wife and I start doing the digital nomad thing later this year. People locally do not want this. No Republican or Democratic governor has ever complained about Disney’s special tax district until DeSantis brought it up specifically because Disney spoke up. DeSantis is not interested in “protecting free speech”. Does this sound like anything but retribution: “You’re a corporation based in Burbank, California, and you’re going to martial your economic might to attack the parents of my state? We view that as a provocation, and we’re going to fight back against that,” DeSantis said during an event at a Hialeah Gardens charter school.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

As well as the potential revenue, which is immense. The city around Disney could introduce a small sales tax or raise property taxes and their anticipated shortfall would likely be fixed.

scarface74 4y ago
The surrounding city didn’t want this to happen https://deadline.com/2022/05/disney-ron-desantis-dont-say-gay-law-special-district-1235016301/ https://deadline.com/2022/05/disney-ron-desantis-dont-say-ga...
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  This isn't the surrounding city, this is a group of "concerned citizens" in the surrounding city - which is a big difference. The citizens of that city will likely be hurt by this, since it may cause a drop in tourist revenue and employment from Disney.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Yes I’m sure other people in the city really want to take on Disney’s debt and want to take responsibility for zoning, police, fire, etc for Disney?
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      The "concerned citizens" likely don't want Disney being adversely affected because it affects their business. Their reasoning has nothing to do with the debt or the responsibility for zoning, etc. The debt is how they are arguing that the government has the same interest as them (and in particular, that there is something illicit going on). By ignoring the potential benefits and pointing out the potential harms, they are trying to get what they want. There would be a huge difference if the city itself were suing, which would indicate that there is actually a problem with the economics of this. If you've ever interacted with local municipal governments in the US, you would know that most municipal government employees would love to take responsibility for the zoning, police, fire, and tax collection at Disney. They would squeeze it for all they can - and they probably will. The concerned citizens (and Disney, who is likely funding their legal case) do not want this squeezing to take place. Make no mistake, that town is only operating at a loss because Disney's accountants are writing its books. They are shifting income to the corporation and losses to the city, so they can take advantage of favorable financing terms available on muni bonds for those losses. If someone adversarial to Disney were to take over the town, the revenue/cost situation would be very different since the two would no longer be working together to shift profits and losses around. We are about to see how different it will be.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Can you point to any article where the local government is salivating over wanting to take over Disney? How does it possibly help the surrounding city? There is a huge movement in the metro Atlanta area to either break off from the larger city or to incorporate county areas so they can have more local control. There is no movement to take over larger responsibilities by the taxpayers.
        pclmulqdq 4y ago
        Most people don't "salivate" publicly. However, they don't seem to mind, and there is no plan to raise taxes on the residents in connection: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2022-05-11/federal-judge-dismisses-florida-taxpayer-lawsuit-against-over-disney-world-district https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/20... This is a biased source (a little too right-leaning for my taste), but it has a few interesting quotes from public officials: https://deadline.com/2022/05/disney-ron-desantis-dont-say-gay-law-special-district-1235016301/ https://deadline.com/2022/05/disney-ron-desantis-dont-say-ga... It helps because Disney in Orlando produces something like $20 billion per year, and owns something like $10-100 billion of property and equipment. All of that is now taxable. It's easy to see how this helps a city: A 1% sales tax would net $200 million, and a property tax would also be in the 8 figures. Police, fire, and other essential services would cost nowhere near this much. Even servicing the debt on $1 billion of bonds would be nowhere near this much. In terms of local politicians, this helps them because someone with $20 billion in revenue will be happy to pay you a $500k bribe (sorry, donation to your re-election fund) to give them favorable rules. I don't know much about the Atlanta metro area, but there have been several cases in the past that I have heard of where rich areas try to break away from larger cities. The cities generally don't want this to happen because these districts are profit centers (this is a reverse of the Disney situation, where a potential profit center would be incorporated into a city). Desires for "local control" are usually about money.
        scarface74 4y ago
        The only mention of it not raising taxes for residence came from DeSantis without anything to back it up. This isn’t something I’m just hearing about from the national news. I bought a second home/investment property in Orange County that will become my legal residence once my wife and I start doing the digital nomad thing later this year. People locally do not want this. No Republican or Democratic governor has ever complained about Disney’s special tax district until DeSantis brought it up specifically because Disney spoke up. DeSantis is not interested in “protecting free speech”. Does this sound like anything but retribution: “You’re a corporation based in Burbank, California, and you’re going to martial your economic might to attack the parents of my state? We view that as a provocation, and we’re going to fight back against that,” DeSantis said during an event at a Hialeah Gardens charter school.