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There's a difference between doing science, and going on a press tour to push a viewpoint, though. I don't think actual science was ever being suppressed. If c

There's a difference between doing science, and going on a press tour to push a viewpoint, though. I don't think actual science was ever being suppressed. If covid was killing 40% of people instead of 1% of people, would we still want to spend 3 years figuring out, on spreadsheets, whether it was really merited based on long-term scientific studies? And if we decided that we should do some things for public health in the very short term, should we humor every crackpot who wants us to wait?

warmwaffles 4y ago
> And if we decided that we should do some things for public health in the very short term, should we humor every crackpot who wants us to wait? That's a very short sighted view. Expanding the power of government is not always the answer.
- PostOnce 4y ago
  We have the concept of a "state of emergency" for a reason, to temporarily give the government additional power to deal with emergencies. We don't want a completely powerless government, we invented government and endowed it with certain powers for a good reason. That's why states of emergency, etc, are temporary and time limited because we are aware of the tradeoffs and downsides of additional govt power vs catastrophic immediate necessity. If I lived next to an active forest fire, I wouldn't want the govt to commission a 36 month study to determine whether the fire was spread along the ground, or via airborne flaming leaves and embers. I would want them to put it out, even if that meant exercising temporary emergency powers like closing a road or shutting off a power line.
  - rmatt2000 4y ago
    > to temporarily give the government additional power to deal with emergencies. I just want to point out that, according to the U.S. federal government, we are still in a "temporary" state of emergency, and have been for 30 months now. https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/15/health/covid-public-health-emergency-extended/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/15/health/covid-public-health-em...
    - PostOnce 4y ago
      I'm not sure if you're aware, but pandemics aren't generally weekend events. Emergency powers help us keep more Americans safe & alive. Also, "State of Emergency" != Martial Law, so I'm not sure what you & your ilk are so disturbed about. Does "The public health emergency declaration allows many Americans to obtain free Covid-19 testing, therapeutic treatment and vaccines. Once it ends, people could face out-of-pocket costs" sound like tyrannical government overreach to you? (from your link) Speaking of which, New York is now in a State of Emergency because there is a polio outbreak in 2022 Great job, guys. A polio outbreak in New York in 2022. FDR would be proud of us. POLIO. I can't imagine vaccinate "skepticism" (read: illiteracy and dearth of critical thinking) has nothing to do with this. POLIO. In 2022. We did this. Can't wait to see what we manage to fuck up in the next 20 years.
      - warmwaffles 4y ago
        > POLIO. In 2022. We did this. First off there are two strains of polio. It will never be eradicated, it'll just mutate and move on. Just like the Spanish Flu did. Second > "State of Emergency" != Martial Law It certainly was being treated like that early days during the pandemic. Shuttering all businesses, forcing people to stay home, and curfews. > Emergency powers help us keep more Americans safe & alive. > ... > Can't wait to see what we manage to fuck up in the next 20 years. You are being hyperbolic.
    - int_19h 4y ago
      That's actually normal for US: as of 2022, we have 42 concurrent ongoing states of national emergency. The oldest of which has to do with the Islamic Revolution in Iran, making it 43 years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i...
  - annad2021 4y ago
    Yes, so temporary that it's still not lifted. I wonder why...
    - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
      The answer is obvious. The 5G chip implants that are part of the vaccine have not reached enough people, and until that happens, thus enabling world order government via radio control, the state of emergency will continue.
GeekyBear 4y ago
> I don't think actual science was ever being suppressed. Don't be ridiculous. We knew very early on that the passengers on the cruise ship Diamond Princess continued to spread Covid from cabin to cabin despite being locked down in their cabins. Yet the scientists who pointed out that this was very good evidence for airborne spread of Covid were shouted down. Why is this important? The mitigations we put in place were based on the theory that Covid had a droplet based spread, like the flu.
- landemva 4y ago
  And there were cases of couples on that ship locked in the same cabin with one person infected and the other not infected. Somehow some people had natural immunity, and this was not discussed or considered when the "everyone vax" messaging started.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    When there's new pathogen, transmission mechanism(s) unknown, and no moral way to test for "natural immunity", you don't go around saying hand wavy shit like "some people won't need it", because you have no idea who does and who doesn't.
    - switch007 4y ago
      Are you saying coronaviruses were completely unknown to us in 2020? Have some balance.
      - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
        Nope. I'm saying there was no way to know who had any level of natural immunity to SARS-COV-2.
        origin_path 4y ago
        The topic was never explored so we don't know if there was no way to know. Instead, epidemiologists just assumed 100% susceptibility, droplet transmission and no seasonality, i.e. that everyone would get infected all at once in one giant wave. This was wrong and also, in contradiction with all pre-existing knowledge of both how coronaviruses work and how SARS-1 worked (SARS-1 was airborne over long distances).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

warmwaffles 4y ago

> And if we decided that we should do some things for public health in the very short term, should we humor every crackpot who wants us to wait? That's a very short sighted view. Expanding the power of government is not always the answer.

PostOnce 4y ago
We have the concept of a "state of emergency" for a reason, to temporarily give the government additional power to deal with emergencies. We don't want a completely powerless government, we invented government and endowed it with certain powers for a good reason. That's why states of emergency, etc, are temporary and time limited because we are aware of the tradeoffs and downsides of additional govt power vs catastrophic immediate necessity. If I lived next to an active forest fire, I wouldn't want the govt to commission a 36 month study to determine whether the fire was spread along the ground, or via airborne flaming leaves and embers. I would want them to put it out, even if that meant exercising temporary emergency powers like closing a road or shutting off a power line.
- rmatt2000 4y ago
  > to temporarily give the government additional power to deal with emergencies. I just want to point out that, according to the U.S. federal government, we are still in a "temporary" state of emergency, and have been for 30 months now. https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/15/health/covid-public-health-emergency-extended/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/15/health/covid-public-health-em...
  - PostOnce 4y ago
    I'm not sure if you're aware, but pandemics aren't generally weekend events. Emergency powers help us keep more Americans safe & alive. Also, "State of Emergency" != Martial Law, so I'm not sure what you & your ilk are so disturbed about. Does "The public health emergency declaration allows many Americans to obtain free Covid-19 testing, therapeutic treatment and vaccines. Once it ends, people could face out-of-pocket costs" sound like tyrannical government overreach to you? (from your link) Speaking of which, New York is now in a State of Emergency because there is a polio outbreak in 2022 Great job, guys. A polio outbreak in New York in 2022. FDR would be proud of us. POLIO. I can't imagine vaccinate "skepticism" (read: illiteracy and dearth of critical thinking) has nothing to do with this. POLIO. In 2022. We did this. Can't wait to see what we manage to fuck up in the next 20 years.
    - warmwaffles 4y ago
      > POLIO. In 2022. We did this. First off there are two strains of polio. It will never be eradicated, it'll just mutate and move on. Just like the Spanish Flu did. Second > "State of Emergency" != Martial Law It certainly was being treated like that early days during the pandemic. Shuttering all businesses, forcing people to stay home, and curfews. > Emergency powers help us keep more Americans safe & alive. > ... > Can't wait to see what we manage to fuck up in the next 20 years. You are being hyperbolic.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    That's actually normal for US: as of 2022, we have 42 concurrent ongoing states of national emergency. The oldest of which has to do with the Islamic Revolution in Iran, making it 43 years old. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_emergencies_i...
- annad2021 4y ago
  Yes, so temporary that it's still not lifted. I wonder why...
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    The answer is obvious. The 5G chip implants that are part of the vaccine have not reached enough people, and until that happens, thus enabling world order government via radio control, the state of emergency will continue.

GeekyBear 4y ago

> I don't think actual science was ever being suppressed. Don't be ridiculous. We knew very early on that the passengers on the cruise ship Diamond Princess continued to spread Covid from cabin to cabin despite being locked down in their cabins. Yet the scientists who pointed out that this was very good evidence for airborne spread of Covid were shouted down. Why is this important? The mitigations we put in place were based on the theory that Covid had a droplet based spread, like the flu.

landemva 4y ago
And there were cases of couples on that ship locked in the same cabin with one person infected and the other not infected. Somehow some people had natural immunity, and this was not discussed or considered when the "everyone vax" messaging started.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  When there's new pathogen, transmission mechanism(s) unknown, and no moral way to test for "natural immunity", you don't go around saying hand wavy shit like "some people won't need it", because you have no idea who does and who doesn't.
  - switch007 4y ago
    Are you saying coronaviruses were completely unknown to us in 2020? Have some balance.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
      Nope. I'm saying there was no way to know who had any level of natural immunity to SARS-COV-2.
      - origin_path 4y ago
        The topic was never explored so we don't know if there was no way to know. Instead, epidemiologists just assumed 100% susceptibility, droplet transmission and no seasonality, i.e. that everyone would get infected all at once in one giant wave. This was wrong and also, in contradiction with all pre-existing knowledge of both how coronaviruses work and how SARS-1 worked (SARS-1 was airborne over long distances).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]