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So - you are just repeating what the Swedish crime council says? Let's look at the Appendix you cite. They have 4 sections and 5 big paragraphs of text explai

So - you are just repeating what the Swedish crime council says? Let's look at the Appendix you cite. They have 4 sections and 5 big paragraphs of text explaining Sweden's rape definition. Then, they have a table giving rape definitions in other countries. First on the list is Belgium - a measly couple of sentences. Sweden's law covers threats of violence, sex acts that aren't penetration, unlawful coercion, and statutory rape. By contrast, Belgium's couple of sentences just cover sexual penetration without consent. Yes, Sweden's law definitely seems broader than Belgium's. But wait! If you go to wikipedia "Rape in Belgium" and click on the source for their definition, you can see the Belgium Penal code[1]. If you translate from French to English (let it load) and ctrl+f for "rape" you can find that sure enough Belgium penal code has rape definitions for unlawfully obtaining consent, non-penetrative sex acts, and statutory rape. So, tell me how is Sweden's definition of rape broader than Belgium's? In my opinion, if the government bureaucrats in charge of preventing crime are explaining to you that the super-high rape rate isn't a problem and is actually a right-wing conspiracy - that deserves a bit more skepticism than just uncritically repeating the summary they give. 1 - http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_loi/loi_a1.pl?DETAIL=1867060801%2FF&caller=list&row_id=1&numero=2&rech=4&cn=1867060801&table_name=LOI&nm=1867060850&la=F&dt=CODE+PENAL&language=fr&fr=f&choix1=ET&choix2=ET&fromtab=loi_all&trier=promulgation&chercher=t&sql=dt+contains++%27CODE%27%26+%27PENAL%27and+actif+%3D+%27Y%27&tri=dd+AS+RANK+&imgcn.x=41&imgcn.y=12#LNK0111 http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi_loi/loi_a1.pl?DETAIL=18...

ZeroGravitas 4y ago
I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/fighting-domestic-violence/europe/belgium/topics/1legal-provisions https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/fighting-... This lists what is counted as rape, and what is counted as other related definitions like "indecent assault with violence or threat" in Belgium. So, non-penetrative sex acts are not classed as rape. So if you compare "number of rapes" between two countries, some things will be counted in one country that aren't in another. Your evidence against this appears to be Ctrl-F in a Google translation? That's not really how this works. You seem simultaneously really invested in this, and at the same time not really willing to engage with the slightest bit of complexity when comparing crime statistics across mutiple countries.
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  Belgium's penal code has multiple definitions of rape including non-consensual acts of a sexual nature. Non-penetrative sex acts can be considered rape in both Sweden and Belgium. I ask again, how are Sweden's laws broader than Belgium. You claim Sweden's rape laws are broader and that's why Sweden has a higher rape rate - but you can't point out how Sweden's laws are broader or quantify the extent to which the difference in definition contributes to the difference in rape rate. You are making claims that you don't even attempt to defend. You write, sneeringly, that my evidence is Ctrl+f of a Google translation. A better way to phrase this is, when I consider the claim that Sweden has a more expansive definition of rape than Belgium, I look at Sweden's laws and then I look at Belgium's and don't see the difference. By contrast, you repeat the talking points of the Swedish government as they explain to you why they aren't responsible for their poor performance. Finally, I've repeatedly acknowledged that comparing statistics is complex. As I wrote previously my comparison of reported rates - that has the advantage of being simple and objective (we can tell if it's true or false). Your method is to say "well, maybe different countries count differently, and maybe Sweden really trusts their police and other Europeans don't, and maybe the laws are different, and..." Yeah, maybe - but you don't have any examples or evidence of any of that and you don't even try to find it. Maybe all of that stuff is true and Sweden is even worse than it appears!

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

I'm not sure what you're trying to argue here. https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/fighting-domestic-violence/europe/belgium/topics/1legal-provisions https://resourcehub.bakermckenzie.com/en/resources/fighting-... This lists what is counted as rape, and what is counted as other related definitions like "indecent assault with violence or threat" in Belgium. So, non-penetrative sex acts are not classed as rape. So if you compare "number of rapes" between two countries, some things will be counted in one country that aren't in another. Your evidence against this appears to be Ctrl-F in a Google translation? That's not really how this works. You seem simultaneously really invested in this, and at the same time not really willing to engage with the slightest bit of complexity when comparing crime statistics across mutiple countries.

ALittleLight 4y ago
Belgium's penal code has multiple definitions of rape including non-consensual acts of a sexual nature. Non-penetrative sex acts can be considered rape in both Sweden and Belgium. I ask again, how are Sweden's laws broader than Belgium. You claim Sweden's rape laws are broader and that's why Sweden has a higher rape rate - but you can't point out how Sweden's laws are broader or quantify the extent to which the difference in definition contributes to the difference in rape rate. You are making claims that you don't even attempt to defend. You write, sneeringly, that my evidence is Ctrl+f of a Google translation. A better way to phrase this is, when I consider the claim that Sweden has a more expansive definition of rape than Belgium, I look at Sweden's laws and then I look at Belgium's and don't see the difference. By contrast, you repeat the talking points of the Swedish government as they explain to you why they aren't responsible for their poor performance. Finally, I've repeatedly acknowledged that comparing statistics is complex. As I wrote previously my comparison of reported rates - that has the advantage of being simple and objective (we can tell if it's true or false). Your method is to say "well, maybe different countries count differently, and maybe Sweden really trusts their police and other Europeans don't, and maybe the laws are different, and..." Yeah, maybe - but you don't have any examples or evidence of any of that and you don't even try to find it. Maybe all of that stuff is true and Sweden is even worse than it appears!