4 ms·

" while far from American levels of gun homicide, is extreme for Europe " I can't recall the exact number, but it went something like "remove top 10 dangerous

by nonameking2026 4y ago

" while far from American levels of gun homicide, is extreme for Europe " I can't recall the exact number, but it went something like "remove top 10 dangerous cities from violent crime statistics in the USA, it pretty much becomes like a standard European country".

theossuary 4y ago
That meme has been throughly debunked for years[1]. With comments like this, havkernews reaply seems to be falling to the lowest common denominator. [1]: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/28/viral-image/united-states-third-murders-outlier-cities/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/28/viral-imag...
- lurquer 4y ago
  How has it been debunked? The only substantive thing your politifact link points out is that the US is not the #1 for murders. The poster never asserted this. As far as the effect of eliminating the top ten cities? Your link doesn’t address it.
  - iudqnolq 4y ago
    The idea that cities are more violent than less populated areas of the USA is a fascinating myth. One factor is that cities release their crimes stats earlier in the year. So newspapers write articles about those stats, and then when the rural stats come out later the topic of crime stats is exhausted. Another factor is that most reporters live in cities and reporters tend prioritize their surroundings. One (imperfect) way to look at it is by looking at per capita homicides by county. Here's California: https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/app/california/2022/measure/factors/15/data?sort=desc-2 https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/app/california/2022/mea... The counties with the highest murder rate in CA are Trinity, Kern, Lake, Del Norte, and San Joaquin. They're about twice as murderous as Alameda (Oakland). A confounding factor is that smaller counties have a larger margin of error, but the overall trend is still clear. Another confounding factor is that this is by county and not city, but if cities were much worse than their surroundings they'd dominate the per capita metric.
    - fiestaman 4y ago
      Homicide rates by metro according to Bloomberg (2020) [1] - Central counties, large metropolitan areas: 10.3 - Medium metros: 7.3 - Small metros: 6.4 - Nonmetro: 6.4 - Fringe counties, large metros: 4.9 1. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-06-07/is-new-york-city-more-dangerous-than-rural-america https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-06-07/is-new...
      - iudqnolq 4y ago
        Interesting! But I took a closer look at the source behind those statistics and it's consistent with the California data I posted. It turns out there are seven states with very dangerous metro areas (Missouri, Illinois, Maryland, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana) and eight states with dangerous metro areas (South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, Indiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Nevada). The remaining states are much safer, with metro rates comparable to the nationwide nonmetro average. Some of that matches with the conventional wisdom (e.g. Chicago is dangerous), but I think those nationwide statistics are quite deceptive. I think it's quite interesting that a California metro area is safer than a California nonmetro area, and both are nearly twice as safe as a Louisiana metro. Take a look at these charts I generated: https://ibb.co/album/LztM7j https://ibb.co/album/LztM7j . You can reproduce them with this saved CDC WONDER request: https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D140/D307F000 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D140/D307F000
- nonameking2026 4y ago
  I didn't say gun homicide or even homicide, stabbings are much more common in London. Example this ad campaign from a couple of years back. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/uk-ad-campaign-to-reduce-knife-features-real-life-cases https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/uk-ad-campai... But fair enough - I couldn't remember my source, maybe I'll dig up the article I was referencing, it might very well be faulty.

theossuary 4y ago

That meme has been throughly debunked for years[1]. With comments like this, havkernews reaply seems to be falling to the lowest common denominator. [1]: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/28/viral-image/united-states-third-murders-outlier-cities/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/mar/28/viral-imag...

lurquer 4y ago
How has it been debunked? The only substantive thing your politifact link points out is that the US is not the #1 for murders. The poster never asserted this. As far as the effect of eliminating the top ten cities? Your link doesn’t address it.
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  The idea that cities are more violent than less populated areas of the USA is a fascinating myth. One factor is that cities release their crimes stats earlier in the year. So newspapers write articles about those stats, and then when the rural stats come out later the topic of crime stats is exhausted. Another factor is that most reporters live in cities and reporters tend prioritize their surroundings. One (imperfect) way to look at it is by looking at per capita homicides by county. Here's California: https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/app/california/2022/measure/factors/15/data?sort=desc-2 https://www.countyhealthrankings.org/app/california/2022/mea... The counties with the highest murder rate in CA are Trinity, Kern, Lake, Del Norte, and San Joaquin. They're about twice as murderous as Alameda (Oakland). A confounding factor is that smaller counties have a larger margin of error, but the overall trend is still clear. Another confounding factor is that this is by county and not city, but if cities were much worse than their surroundings they'd dominate the per capita metric.
  - fiestaman 4y ago
    Homicide rates by metro according to Bloomberg (2020) [1] - Central counties, large metropolitan areas: 10.3 - Medium metros: 7.3 - Small metros: 6.4 - Nonmetro: 6.4 - Fringe counties, large metros: 4.9 1. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-06-07/is-new-york-city-more-dangerous-than-rural-america https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-06-07/is-new...
    - iudqnolq 4y ago
      Interesting! But I took a closer look at the source behind those statistics and it's consistent with the California data I posted. It turns out there are seven states with very dangerous metro areas (Missouri, Illinois, Maryland, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana) and eight states with dangerous metro areas (South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky, Indiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Nevada). The remaining states are much safer, with metro rates comparable to the nationwide nonmetro average. Some of that matches with the conventional wisdom (e.g. Chicago is dangerous), but I think those nationwide statistics are quite deceptive. I think it's quite interesting that a California metro area is safer than a California nonmetro area, and both are nearly twice as safe as a Louisiana metro. Take a look at these charts I generated: https://ibb.co/album/LztM7j https://ibb.co/album/LztM7j . You can reproduce them with this saved CDC WONDER request: https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D140/D307F000 https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D140/D307F000
nonameking2026 4y ago
I didn't say gun homicide or even homicide, stabbings are much more common in London. Example this ad campaign from a couple of years back. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/uk-ad-campaign-to-reduce-knife-features-real-life-cases https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/uk-ad-campai... But fair enough - I couldn't remember my source, maybe I'll dig up the article I was referencing, it might very well be faulty.