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In my experience, contractors will build exactly what I ask for without challenging unimportant details that would have made things easier. My interpretation is

by halgir 4y ago

In my experience, contractors will build exactly what I ask for without challenging unimportant details that would have made things easier. My interpretation is that because they have so much internalized knowledge, they assume that I obviously know many of the same things that they do, and that I have already considered any such changes and actively decided against them. I've since learned to do what was suggested above. It's been a valuable lesson for myself to question just how much of my internalized "obvious" knowledge about technical matters is apparent to clients and partners. Never assume.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lazide 4y ago
Also, they can charge more if it’s harder (usually), as long as it’s obvious to other contractors it would be hard too. If the low bidder gave that bid because they didn’t notice, then also lulz - tends to weed out the problem children. Really painful for the customer and said contractor though.
- RHSeeger 4y ago
  As an example of the opposite of this... We had a pond put in a number of years back. The guys that did the work laid out what they would be building, showed us everything, and we agreed on it. While digging out the earth for the pond, they ran into a boulder not too far underground. They spend about half a day fighting with the boulder, seeing if they could break it up, etc; whatever they could do to get it out of the way. When we went out to chat with them and see how the work was going, they told us about the rock and how it's being difficult. We told them we'd be fine with them changing the shape of the pond to just work around the boulder. They were happy about this because it made their lives much easier. The cost of the creation of the pond was set before they started work on it. They gained nothing by trying really hard to create what they said they would; other than the fact that they did a good job and had happy clients. But they spend the time trying to deal with the problem without any real complaints (the talk about it being difficult was a casual chat, not them coming to us to complain).
  - lazide 4y ago
    They are obligated by law to do what they said they would, even at their cost, if above and beyond what they expected and not covered by the contact as a cost-plus, or risk losing their contractors license and being civilly liable. At least in the vast majority of US jurisdictions. You saved them a lot of hassle by being flexible, but were under no obligation to be. Smart contractors build in the odds of this happening in their contracts. Dumb ones expect everything to go right all the time, and then try to run away or cheat when it doesn’t. Or lose their shirts.
    - RHSeeger 4y ago
      My point was that they didn't try to convince us to let them do something easier. They didn't even talk to us about it until we came out to see how they were doing. They weren't "happy taking the harder, longer route because it meant more money for more time". I was pleased with them and would recommend them any time.
      - lazide 4y ago
        I think you’re misunderstanding? That decision would have had to be before they signed the contract. No one knew about the geology. At the point they did, it was too late. It was great they didn’t try to avoid their responsibility, many would have!
    - iudqnolq 4y ago
      > They are obligated by law to do what they said they would, even at their cost, if above and beyond what they expected and not covered by the contact as a cost-plus, or risk losing their contractors license and being civilly liable. At least in the vast majority of US jurisdictions. This is technically true, but misleading. They have to follow the contract, but the contract likely includes exceptions for unforseen issues. And while you can technically sue a contractor for breach of contract the only reason to do so in this situation would be spite. The rational choice if a contractor cheats you on a small project is to be sad and move on. (Google around and you'll find lots of people who learned that the hard way).
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
I’ve learned to try to hedge against this kind of thing with language like “I’m no expert here, so let me know if you have any ideas on a better way” or the like. But yeah it is a good reminder not to make those assumptions when speaking with others.
ochoseis 4y ago
This is often called “The Curse of Knowledge”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge?wprov=sfti1
- halgir 4y ago
  I didn't know this had a name, thanks!

by halgir 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lazide 4y ago

Also, they can charge more if it’s harder (usually), as long as it’s obvious to other contractors it would be hard too. If the low bidder gave that bid because they didn’t notice, then also lulz - tends to weed out the problem children. Really painful for the customer and said contractor though.

RHSeeger 4y ago
As an example of the opposite of this... We had a pond put in a number of years back. The guys that did the work laid out what they would be building, showed us everything, and we agreed on it. While digging out the earth for the pond, they ran into a boulder not too far underground. They spend about half a day fighting with the boulder, seeing if they could break it up, etc; whatever they could do to get it out of the way. When we went out to chat with them and see how the work was going, they told us about the rock and how it's being difficult. We told them we'd be fine with them changing the shape of the pond to just work around the boulder. They were happy about this because it made their lives much easier. The cost of the creation of the pond was set before they started work on it. They gained nothing by trying really hard to create what they said they would; other than the fact that they did a good job and had happy clients. But they spend the time trying to deal with the problem without any real complaints (the talk about it being difficult was a casual chat, not them coming to us to complain).
- lazide 4y ago
  They are obligated by law to do what they said they would, even at their cost, if above and beyond what they expected and not covered by the contact as a cost-plus, or risk losing their contractors license and being civilly liable. At least in the vast majority of US jurisdictions. You saved them a lot of hassle by being flexible, but were under no obligation to be. Smart contractors build in the odds of this happening in their contracts. Dumb ones expect everything to go right all the time, and then try to run away or cheat when it doesn’t. Or lose their shirts.
  - RHSeeger 4y ago
    My point was that they didn't try to convince us to let them do something easier. They didn't even talk to us about it until we came out to see how they were doing. They weren't "happy taking the harder, longer route because it meant more money for more time". I was pleased with them and would recommend them any time.
    - lazide 4y ago
      I think you’re misunderstanding? That decision would have had to be before they signed the contract. No one knew about the geology. At the point they did, it was too late. It was great they didn’t try to avoid their responsibility, many would have!
  - iudqnolq 4y ago
    > They are obligated by law to do what they said they would, even at their cost, if above and beyond what they expected and not covered by the contact as a cost-plus, or risk losing their contractors license and being civilly liable. At least in the vast majority of US jurisdictions. This is technically true, but misleading. They have to follow the contract, but the contract likely includes exceptions for unforseen issues. And while you can technically sue a contractor for breach of contract the only reason to do so in this situation would be spite. The rational choice if a contractor cheats you on a small project is to be sad and move on. (Google around and you'll find lots of people who learned that the hard way).

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

I’ve learned to try to hedge against this kind of thing with language like “I’m no expert here, so let me know if you have any ideas on a better way” or the like. But yeah it is a good reminder not to make those assumptions when speaking with others.

ochoseis 4y ago

This is often called “The Curse of Knowledge”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_knowledge?wprov=sfti1

halgir 4y ago
I didn't know this had a name, thanks!