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This. As an under the age of 30 person, Covid is a small threat. But asking questions about a government mandated vaccine that was rushed through testing in an

This. As an under the age of 30 person, Covid is a small threat. But asking questions about a government mandated vaccine that was rushed through testing in an unprecedented manner labels you a loony. Questions like who is going to be liable for the inevitable even if small bad reactions? Not big pharma, they were absolved in the contract of all liability. If they were so confident and if this is so safe that I don’t have to worry about it as a citizen why did the lawyers ensure that they wouldn’t be liable? What about the precedence of liberty this sets? In a series of weeks the government removed nearly all agency overnight and everyone complied. There was no real debate on pros and cons of the total lockdown. The ineffectiveness of masks other than n95 when changed out daily. Which nobody had. I have friends that still won’t consider the vanity fair article or lab leak theory as anything other than conspiracy. Oh yea and the ever falling efficacy of the vaccine itself. But let’s check cress to make sure I’m a dr.

OrvalWintermute 4y ago
I heard the criticism would skip between a few variables Do you have a PhD in virology? Are you a medical doctor? Are you a biomedical engineer? The worst types of credentialism!
SamPatt 4y ago
>What about the precedence of liberty this sets? In a series of weeks the government removed nearly all agency overnight and everyone complied. There was no real debate on pros and cons of the total lockdown. Not only was there no debate, but even dissent was discouraged or even outlawed. No gatherings larger than 10 people allowed. Hard to rally against losing your freedom of movement when you can't leave your house.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  That’s not true, large assemblies for BLM were encouraged because the dozen wrongful murders a year constitute a bigger public health emergency than COVID. The standards were political from the start.
  - vkou 4y ago
    Yes, BLM protests in my city were encouraged by regular application of police batons, rubber-coated bullets, and flooding the streets with tear gas. The anti-lockdown protests, on the other hand were encouraged by... A few cops looking bored. Which is strange, because COVID has been the #1 killer of police officers since the pandemic started.
    - spookthesunset 4y ago
      You mean of the cops who died the majority tested positive. Very different than saying more cops were killed because of Covid than anything else. It’s entirely plausible that lots of cops would test positive for Covid… they interact with the public just like service workers, nurses and teachers…
      - vkou 4y ago
        No, I meant what I said. https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatality-Report-Final-web.pdf https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatal... Vaccination rates among LEOs were much lower than those other professions, which, unsurprisingly, resulted in substantially more serious illnesses and deaths.
- endominus 4y ago
  That's not entirely fair; I distinctly remember my feeds filled with the medical establishment speaking in approval for the BLM protests that occurred during 2020. The argument, I recall, was that those protests were necessary to improve the health outcomes of the black community, since police fatalities were more dangerous than COVID. And speaking of the medical establishment, in my favorite anecdote from the entire year, I also remember the CDC specifically recommending a prioritization of vaccines[0] that would kill thousands more Americans than the alternative for ideological and extremely racist reasons. Literally, the reasoning they gave was that vaccinating over-65s first was less than ideal because, quote, "Racial and ethnic minority groups [are] under-represented among adults >65". In fact, the plan they ended up recommending would have killed more minorities too, simply because it was more deadly overall. These are the people we should never question. [0]: https://www.persuasion.community/p/why-im-losing-trust-in-the-institutions https://www.persuasion.community/p/why-im-losing-trust-in-th... - the original report is at https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-11/COVID-04-Dooling.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... with the quote on slide 31
- landemva 4y ago
  In the alternate space time dimension at mine sites, the regulator is MSHA. MSHA said to stay home if sick and follow normal procedures at work. Getting to mines was smooth because the roads were empty. On mine sets was, in my experience, business as usual without masks (masks limit visual range and cause accidents). At one site they had a tent and invited me to the party with employees and families who proceeded to have a pig roast without any social distancing or masks or wash stations. It was glorious. Then i drove back to the big city and went to buy groceries and everyone was masked and shying away from others. Some shoppers were wearing gloves and the aisles had designated travel directions. Bizarre.
mbesto 4y ago
> As an under the age of 30 person, Covid is a small threat. How did you know this? What information did you use to determine that a 30 year old? How did you know to trust it? Did your view on this change in March 2020 vs March 2022 as more data and studies were introduced?
- OrvalWintermute 4y ago
  > How did you know this? The JHU site provided metrics and details of fatality rates for ages based on comorbidities and weight, among other variables > What information did you use to determine that a 30 year old? I referenced the JHU site > How did you know to trust it? The JHU data was based on the best available data at the time, and was regularly updated. > Did your view on this change in March 2020 vs March 2022 as more data and studies were introduced? I've heard various things about whether or not the JHU data was negative enough or positive enough, but as far as a top line for mortality, it seemed accurate given the data at the time. In retrospect, the fatality numbers may have been too high, but, that may also have been as a result of improving therapeutics, and recognition that some of the early responses such as putting patients on higher pressure ventilators was contraindicated. This is further complicated by variant types which have different amounts of lethality.
  - mbesto 4y ago
    > The JHU data was based on the best available data at the time, and was regularly updated. But how did you decide that JHU was presenting accurate data?

OrvalWintermute 4y ago

I heard the criticism would skip between a few variables Do you have a PhD in virology? Are you a medical doctor? Are you a biomedical engineer? The worst types of credentialism!

SamPatt 4y ago

>What about the precedence of liberty this sets? In a series of weeks the government removed nearly all agency overnight and everyone complied. There was no real debate on pros and cons of the total lockdown. Not only was there no debate, but even dissent was discouraged or even outlawed. No gatherings larger than 10 people allowed. Hard to rally against losing your freedom of movement when you can't leave your house.

zmgsabst 4y ago
That’s not true, large assemblies for BLM were encouraged because the dozen wrongful murders a year constitute a bigger public health emergency than COVID. The standards were political from the start.
- vkou 4y ago
  Yes, BLM protests in my city were encouraged by regular application of police batons, rubber-coated bullets, and flooding the streets with tear gas. The anti-lockdown protests, on the other hand were encouraged by... A few cops looking bored. Which is strange, because COVID has been the #1 killer of police officers since the pandemic started.
  - spookthesunset 4y ago
    You mean of the cops who died the majority tested positive. Very different than saying more cops were killed because of Covid than anything else. It’s entirely plausible that lots of cops would test positive for Covid… they interact with the public just like service workers, nurses and teachers…
    - vkou 4y ago
      No, I meant what I said. https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatality-Report-Final-web.pdf https://nleomf.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/2021-EOY-Fatal... Vaccination rates among LEOs were much lower than those other professions, which, unsurprisingly, resulted in substantially more serious illnesses and deaths.
endominus 4y ago
That's not entirely fair; I distinctly remember my feeds filled with the medical establishment speaking in approval for the BLM protests that occurred during 2020. The argument, I recall, was that those protests were necessary to improve the health outcomes of the black community, since police fatalities were more dangerous than COVID. And speaking of the medical establishment, in my favorite anecdote from the entire year, I also remember the CDC specifically recommending a prioritization of vaccines[0] that would kill thousands more Americans than the alternative for ideological and extremely racist reasons. Literally, the reasoning they gave was that vaccinating over-65s first was less than ideal because, quote, "Racial and ethnic minority groups [are] under-represented among adults >65". In fact, the plan they ended up recommending would have killed more minorities too, simply because it was more deadly overall. These are the people we should never question. [0]: https://www.persuasion.community/p/why-im-losing-trust-in-the-institutions https://www.persuasion.community/p/why-im-losing-trust-in-th... - the original report is at https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2020-11/COVID-04-Dooling.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-... with the quote on slide 31
landemva 4y ago
In the alternate space time dimension at mine sites, the regulator is MSHA. MSHA said to stay home if sick and follow normal procedures at work. Getting to mines was smooth because the roads were empty. On mine sets was, in my experience, business as usual without masks (masks limit visual range and cause accidents). At one site they had a tent and invited me to the party with employees and families who proceeded to have a pig roast without any social distancing or masks or wash stations. It was glorious. Then i drove back to the big city and went to buy groceries and everyone was masked and shying away from others. Some shoppers were wearing gloves and the aisles had designated travel directions. Bizarre.

mbesto 4y ago

> As an under the age of 30 person, Covid is a small threat. How did you know this? What information did you use to determine that a 30 year old? How did you know to trust it? Did your view on this change in March 2020 vs March 2022 as more data and studies were introduced?

OrvalWintermute 4y ago
> How did you know this? The JHU site provided metrics and details of fatality rates for ages based on comorbidities and weight, among other variables > What information did you use to determine that a 30 year old? I referenced the JHU site > How did you know to trust it? The JHU data was based on the best available data at the time, and was regularly updated. > Did your view on this change in March 2020 vs March 2022 as more data and studies were introduced? I've heard various things about whether or not the JHU data was negative enough or positive enough, but as far as a top line for mortality, it seemed accurate given the data at the time. In retrospect, the fatality numbers may have been too high, but, that may also have been as a result of improving therapeutics, and recognition that some of the early responses such as putting patients on higher pressure ventilators was contraindicated. This is further complicated by variant types which have different amounts of lethality.
- mbesto 4y ago
  > The JHU data was based on the best available data at the time, and was regularly updated. But how did you decide that JHU was presenting accurate data?