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I care because ATSC 3.0 includes AC-4, a proprietary Dolby format. None of my software will play the audio from ATSC 3.0 over the air broadcasts for this reason

I care because ATSC 3.0 includes AC-4, a proprietary Dolby format. None of my software will play the audio from ATSC 3.0 over the air broadcasts for this reason. ATSC 3.0 is a government standard for how public airwaves should be used. It strikes me as wrong that the government has basically mandated Dolby licensing for hardware manufacturers and software libraries.

toast0 4y ago
Well of course ATSC 3 includes a new proprietary Dolby format, ATSC 1 got AC-3 as a mandatory audio format, too. I'm not sure if ac-4 is mandatory, but it seems like it is? Kind of a big pain indeed.
- kieranl 4y ago
  Atsc mandates ac-3. Ac-3 audio is actually dolby-d. They just could not call it Dolby in the standard so they renamed it to ac3 instead.
layer8 4y ago
ATSC 3.0 doesn’t mandate Dolby AC-4, it also supports MPEG-H. Both require licensing. The thing is, there is no equivalent patent-free technology available (object-based 3D audio).
- izacus 4y ago
  Exactly. Which is why "I don't care" is a very shortsighted and terrible look on a standard that's at least royalty free.
  - layer8 4y ago
    Yeah, my point is you can’t blame ATSC 3.0 for making use of the existing standards. And it’s not too different from how a lot of mobile/wireless technology depends on patents.
anigbrowl 4y ago
That's a good counter-argument which I agree with. I was looking at the issue in terms of voluntary consumer behavior (visiting theaters, buying TV or hifi equipment) and industrial supply rather than public good considerations. Where limited resources are allocated by government as (ideally) neutral broker we should certainly prefer openness. There is an argument for patent protection as innovation motivator, but lockup periods are more likely to lead to runaway market dominance due to preferential attachment. Where there's a monospony (like government as owner of spectrum) that's probably going to lead to negative outcomes. Thanks for widening my perspective on that issue.
- ajdude 4y ago
  I’m kind of directly affected by this as a consumer, as I am a big user of Plex, but can no longer receive sound with my antenna television if I run it through Plex. This is because ATSC3.0 requires Plex to secure licensing for AC-4 audio in order to process the sound, which they legally haven’t been able to do yet. Unfortunately, my reception is significantly better via ATSC3.0, yet I’m left waiting and unable to utilize it. https://forums.plex.tv/t/atsc3-0-broadcast-and-ac-4-sound/647437 https://forums.plex.tv/t/atsc3-0-broadcast-and-ac-4-sound/64...
  - d110af5ccf 4y ago
    It looks like there are some ffmpeg forks that include patches supporting AC-4 but they haven't been merged upstream yet. https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/8349 https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/8349 Not that it changes anything. Proprietary formats have no place in such government specifications. But possibly a relevant ffmpeg build could help you do what you wanted to.
scarface74 4y ago
Do you feel the same way about the EU forcing exertions to use USB C?

toast0 4y ago

Well of course ATSC 3 includes a new proprietary Dolby format, ATSC 1 got AC-3 as a mandatory audio format, too. I'm not sure if ac-4 is mandatory, but it seems like it is? Kind of a big pain indeed.

kieranl 4y ago
Atsc mandates ac-3. Ac-3 audio is actually dolby-d. They just could not call it Dolby in the standard so they renamed it to ac3 instead.

layer8 4y ago

ATSC 3.0 doesn’t mandate Dolby AC-4, it also supports MPEG-H. Both require licensing. The thing is, there is no equivalent patent-free technology available (object-based 3D audio).

izacus 4y ago
Exactly. Which is why "I don't care" is a very shortsighted and terrible look on a standard that's at least royalty free.
- layer8 4y ago
  Yeah, my point is you can’t blame ATSC 3.0 for making use of the existing standards. And it’s not too different from how a lot of mobile/wireless technology depends on patents.

anigbrowl 4y ago

That's a good counter-argument which I agree with. I was looking at the issue in terms of voluntary consumer behavior (visiting theaters, buying TV or hifi equipment) and industrial supply rather than public good considerations. Where limited resources are allocated by government as (ideally) neutral broker we should certainly prefer openness. There is an argument for patent protection as innovation motivator, but lockup periods are more likely to lead to runaway market dominance due to preferential attachment. Where there's a monospony (like government as owner of spectrum) that's probably going to lead to negative outcomes. Thanks for widening my perspective on that issue.

ajdude 4y ago
I’m kind of directly affected by this as a consumer, as I am a big user of Plex, but can no longer receive sound with my antenna television if I run it through Plex. This is because ATSC3.0 requires Plex to secure licensing for AC-4 audio in order to process the sound, which they legally haven’t been able to do yet. Unfortunately, my reception is significantly better via ATSC3.0, yet I’m left waiting and unable to utilize it. https://forums.plex.tv/t/atsc3-0-broadcast-and-ac-4-sound/647437 https://forums.plex.tv/t/atsc3-0-broadcast-and-ac-4-sound/64...
- d110af5ccf 4y ago
  It looks like there are some ffmpeg forks that include patches supporting AC-4 but they haven't been merged upstream yet. https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/8349 https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/8349 Not that it changes anything. Proprietary formats have no place in such government specifications. But possibly a relevant ffmpeg build could help you do what you wanted to.

scarface74 4y ago

Do you feel the same way about the EU forcing exertions to use USB C?