4 ms·

Telescreen, newspeak, mass surveillance, perpetual war, "officials" acting as if what they are saying now is always what they said, etc. It's almost easier to l

Telescreen, newspeak, mass surveillance, perpetual war, "officials" acting as if what they are saying now is always what they said, etc. It's almost easier to list the things that we don't have in common.

pessimizer 4y ago
Speakwrites are coming. It'll be no time at all until your computer changes what you're typing to something more appropriate, or throws up a modal that reads: "Most writers don't write things like this. You should consider for a moment whether this is how you want to present yourself to others. Press [suggestions] for alternate ways to express a similar idea, or press [submit] to become legally and socially liable for the consequences of your actions."
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
matai_kolila 4y ago
Literally none of those things are real as actually described in the novel. Keeping a diary is punishable by death (that's the premise of the entire story), it's kind of silly to compare that with our lives today.
- rt4mn 4y ago
  1984 was published in 1949. It is partially science fiction. Tricorders are not literally the same as cell phones, either, but if you ignore the parrelels you are doing a disservice to the important role and lessons of good sci-fi. The thing I tell most people is that we currently live under more surveillance then folks in 1984. "You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized." nowadays your movement is not safe even in darkness. We would be even more screwed then folks living in that fictional regime if we backslide away from rights based democratic rule of law.
  - matai_kolila 4y ago
    I couldn’t disagree more strongly; the fact that you can write this and not worry for the rest of your life about being killed is the whole point. I urge you to reread 1984, and focus on how people who broke the rules were treated. People weren’t deplatformed or cancelled, they were murdered.
    - rt4mn 4y ago
      I do worry about being killed by the government. I worry about everything related to government abuse of power and surveillance. I wear my tinfoil with with pride, thank you very much. On a more serious note (in case it was not clear that I was being facetious), you are absolute correct that an important theme (and, arguably, the primary / key message) of 1984 is to highlight the horror and dangers of a totalitarian government, and to push back against the very, very pressing danger of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. But one of the great things about sci-fi / dystopian / utopian fiction is that it lets us look at a potential future, ask ourselves if thats a world we want to live in, and if its not, we can think about what it might take for us to go down that path, and what steps we should take if we want to avoid it. You are right to point out that we dont live an a totalitarian surveillance state run by elites without respect for the rule of law. But my point is that we could, and that we currently do live in a surveillance state. It just happens to be a democratic surveillance state run by elected representatives of the people with a strong culture of respect of the rule of law. But its a surveillance state nevertheless. I wont suggest you re-read 1984, but I would suggest taking a look at this opinion piece by Pussy Riot's Nadya Tolokonnikova: https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm37qxb44r64ytbb2dj3x62d2lljsciiyd.onion/2020/08/26/opinion/navalny-russia.html https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm37qxb44r64ytbb2dj3x62d2l... (or i guess https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/opinion/navalny-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/opinion/navalny-russia.ht..., but I suggest the onion link) Or at least the last paragraph: "Our president has only just recently had the law changed so that he can stay in power until 2036, but his program of repression didn’t start out this blatantly. These things happen in pieces, bit by bit, small acts. And each one may even seem relatively benign at first, perhaps bad, but not fatal. You get angry, maybe you speak out, but you get on with your life. The promise of our democracy was chipped away in pieces, one by one: corrupt cronies appointed, presidential orders issued, actions taken, laws passed, votes rigged. It happens slowly, intermittently; sometimes we couldn’t see how steadily. Autocracy crept in, like the coward it is." Persistent mass surveillance is not mentioned. Abusive government surveillance tends to fly under the radar. But one of the lessons of 1984 is that you ignore it at your peril.
- hatware 4y ago
  In ~20 years you'll see how silly you are for welcoming totalitarianism. You won't care until it effects you. And then it will be too late for you to do anything about it.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - matai_kolila 4y ago
    Welcoming, not welcoming; you don't know my position on totalitarianism, you just know I've read 1984 and have opinions about the validity of parallels with modern day. For all you know I prefer "Brave New World" analogies!
    - hatware 4y ago
      > you don't know my position on totalitarianism We all know your position, and you're not on the right side of history. Period.

pessimizer 4y ago

Speakwrites are coming. It'll be no time at all until your computer changes what you're typing to something more appropriate, or throws up a modal that reads: "Most writers don't write things like this. You should consider for a moment whether this is how you want to present yourself to others. Press [suggestions] for alternate ways to express a similar idea, or press [submit] to become legally and socially liable for the consequences of your actions."

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

matai_kolila 4y ago

Literally none of those things are real as actually described in the novel. Keeping a diary is punishable by death (that's the premise of the entire story), it's kind of silly to compare that with our lives today.

rt4mn 4y ago
1984 was published in 1949. It is partially science fiction. Tricorders are not literally the same as cell phones, either, but if you ignore the parrelels you are doing a disservice to the important role and lessons of good sci-fi. The thing I tell most people is that we currently live under more surveillance then folks in 1984. "You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized." nowadays your movement is not safe even in darkness. We would be even more screwed then folks living in that fictional regime if we backslide away from rights based democratic rule of law.
- matai_kolila 4y ago
  I couldn’t disagree more strongly; the fact that you can write this and not worry for the rest of your life about being killed is the whole point. I urge you to reread 1984, and focus on how people who broke the rules were treated. People weren’t deplatformed or cancelled, they were murdered.
  - rt4mn 4y ago
    I do worry about being killed by the government. I worry about everything related to government abuse of power and surveillance. I wear my tinfoil with with pride, thank you very much. On a more serious note (in case it was not clear that I was being facetious), you are absolute correct that an important theme (and, arguably, the primary / key message) of 1984 is to highlight the horror and dangers of a totalitarian government, and to push back against the very, very pressing danger of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. But one of the great things about sci-fi / dystopian / utopian fiction is that it lets us look at a potential future, ask ourselves if thats a world we want to live in, and if its not, we can think about what it might take for us to go down that path, and what steps we should take if we want to avoid it. You are right to point out that we dont live an a totalitarian surveillance state run by elites without respect for the rule of law. But my point is that we could, and that we currently do live in a surveillance state. It just happens to be a democratic surveillance state run by elected representatives of the people with a strong culture of respect of the rule of law. But its a surveillance state nevertheless. I wont suggest you re-read 1984, but I would suggest taking a look at this opinion piece by Pussy Riot's Nadya Tolokonnikova: https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm37qxb44r64ytbb2dj3x62d2lljsciiyd.onion/2020/08/26/opinion/navalny-russia.html https://www.nytimesn7cgmftshazwhfgzm37qxb44r64ytbb2dj3x62d2l... (or i guess https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/opinion/navalny-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/26/opinion/navalny-russia.ht..., but I suggest the onion link) Or at least the last paragraph: "Our president has only just recently had the law changed so that he can stay in power until 2036, but his program of repression didn’t start out this blatantly. These things happen in pieces, bit by bit, small acts. And each one may even seem relatively benign at first, perhaps bad, but not fatal. You get angry, maybe you speak out, but you get on with your life. The promise of our democracy was chipped away in pieces, one by one: corrupt cronies appointed, presidential orders issued, actions taken, laws passed, votes rigged. It happens slowly, intermittently; sometimes we couldn’t see how steadily. Autocracy crept in, like the coward it is." Persistent mass surveillance is not mentioned. Abusive government surveillance tends to fly under the radar. But one of the lessons of 1984 is that you ignore it at your peril.
hatware 4y ago
In ~20 years you'll see how silly you are for welcoming totalitarianism. You won't care until it effects you. And then it will be too late for you to do anything about it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- matai_kolila 4y ago
  Welcoming, not welcoming; you don't know my position on totalitarianism, you just know I've read 1984 and have opinions about the validity of parallels with modern day. For all you know I prefer "Brave New World" analogies!
  - hatware 4y ago
    > you don't know my position on totalitarianism We all know your position, and you're not on the right side of history. Period.