4 ms·

Iran is geographically two countries away from Israel, the country that clandestinely fomented similar riots/insurrections in 10+ other countries that border Is

Iran is geographically two countries away from Israel, the country that clandestinely fomented similar riots/insurrections in 10+ other countries that border Israel during the Arab Spring. Furthermore, Israel has been greatly outspoken in its hatred of Iran and Iran's nuclear program, going so far as to deploy the most sophisticated cyberattack in history[1]. It would hardly be a conspiracy theory to pin this on Israel rather than women suddenly waking up and deciding to riot after thousands of years of oppression. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

mylons 4y ago
uhm —- even if israel is fanning the flames of this, so what?
- ethotool 4y ago
  Isn’t that called state sponsored terrorism?
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    not really terrorism is it. just state sponsored?
  - mylons 4y ago
    how? are you defending the iranian theocracy?
caeril 4y ago
- davisoneee 4y ago
  Or, you know, provide and expect evidence, rather than conspiracy? Try to improve the situation by providing some real data as to why _this_, or some other event, IS being driven by Mossad/CIA/whoever, rather than just throwing snark into an online chat. The world doesn't benefit from people just throwing shit at each other. If you have evidence, educate the world. If you don't, useful actions would be to _look_ for evidence, not just promote antagonism.
- twixfel 4y ago
  How about some evidence? And why are you getting all high and mighty? Your stance is among the basest imaginable, you have no reason to speak in that way.
- davisoneee 4y ago
  Further, editing your message to completely remove all trace of the original is highly disingenuous. Even if there is strong concern for CIA and Mossad in this situation, do you think your snark does anything to improve the situation? Do you think it brings people towards, or pushes people away from your position? Or perhaps people just read your snark and think "im not going to even fucking pay attention to this guy"? Or is it just for your own shits and giggles?
luckylion 4y ago
> It would hardly be a conspiracy theory to pin this on Israel rather than women suddenly waking up and deciding to riot after thousands of years of oppression. Or, you know, it could be that Iranian women just want that freedom back that was taken from them some 40 years ago. It's not like they've had to cover their hair and follow islamist rules for all of history. If you have any trust in pictures left, go look it up. You'll find plenty of photos of Iranians looking very much like Westerners 70 years ago. I understand the love for conspiracy theories, but this one is just lacking any effort.
- amir734jj 4y ago
  Agreed. People are just tired.
davisoneee 4y ago
Miriam Webster Definition of conspiracy theory : a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators You have no evidence that this is likely to be Israel. Just speculation. This is conspiracy theory by definition.
- jimbob45 4y ago
  People are taking my comment out of context. I'm not saying that Israel is 100% for sure behind this. I'm offering an equally likely explanation in response to the individual above who concluded that this was definitely because women randomly decided that they'd had enough. Was it actually Israel? Was it just angry women? Nobody truly knows, least of all me or GP.
  - davisoneee 4y ago
    There's been a gradual relaxing of adherance to the hijab in Iran for decades, and this year a woman was murdered because of her 'lax' hijab. You are entertaining the idea that this _could_ be an israeli plot, which you don't have evidence for, alongside the idea it's just "angry women". So yes, even _with_ the context, it sounds a lot like you're spouting conspiracy theories behind a veil of "but I'm just asking _'what if'_?"
    - ethotool 4y ago
      This has been going on for many years in the Middle East: https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/the-new-middle-east-and-its-constructive-chaos-1.1218872 https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/the-new-middle-east-and-...
  - luckylion 4y ago
    "Randomly", after a woman died after being taken into custody by the moral police. But sure, it's "equally likely" that Israel somehow sprinkled the rebellion-seeds over Iran and now the women are rising up. Totally just as likely.
wishfish 4y ago
How many major protests have happened in Iran over the past ten years? That's actually a serious question. I remember big ones in 2019. Smaller ones since in the time before the current uprising. Some before 2019 as well. There's tremendous anger beneath the surface in Iran and it's not caused by Mossad. Iran banned abortion in 1979. There's been a baby boom since. The country is lopsided towards young people. People who don't want the repressive government. They want women to live freely. Many of them want the gay people of their country treated equally. It's an insult to them to say this revolt isn't grassroots. There's so much anger from people who just want to live quiet, normal lives in freedom. Without the rule of clerics and morality police. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a Mossad and/or CIA agent on the ground in Tehran is providing some assistance. That's what they do in times of unrest in an unfriendly country. But "some assistance" is a far cry from fomenting. This is mainly an Iranian effort.
- throwaway2202 4y ago
  At mild risk of getting downvoted. At least in the last 10 years, the protests has been motivated by economic situation. people don’t like the government but they also remember how bad the last revolution was, iraq-iran war after it on top. Iran’s banning of abortion matters far less than gov successfully promoting lower number of children through the 90s. Matters far less because numbers, easy to verify.
  - throwaway2202 4y ago
    To add the economic situation is consequence of trump pulling out of the nuclear agreement, sanctioning, and democratic administration keeping the status quo. @dang my other comment is dead. Flagged or not according to guidelines?
- throwaway2202 4y ago
  Edit: Missed the gay part. It’s more complicated than it looks. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Iran https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Iran . But while I agree there’s official repression, I heard an argument once that a gay person who keeps it private is capable of natural reproduction in iran, whereas in the modern western gay family, they have to go through surrogacy, which is not cheap and outprices some men, not sure if even common. So in this sense the percentage of gays in the US will shrink over time but they have good gay rights. The other is the Iranian government repression rarely comes into action. if a male is known to be gay by those around him, good chance he won’t get reported to government since the punishment is too extreme for anyone to bear it on their conscious, even if the person is truly religious, they prefer to be wrong, and if they are correct, government and the muslim law requires witnesses or conclusive evidence, otherwise defamation. Muslim law bans gays, it "happens" to ban defamation but not sure what is the punishment of the latter. So in this climate the way of loudly claiming gay rights on streets not only embarrasses one’s acquaintances since defiance of norms, it is actually self-sentencing. This is a tight bound, but there’s no law in iran or anywhere else I assume that forces men to marry anyone throughout their lives. There’s formal repression, less rights, but reality is also important.

mylons 4y ago

uhm —- even if israel is fanning the flames of this, so what?

ethotool 4y ago
Isn’t that called state sponsored terrorism?
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  not really terrorism is it. just state sponsored?
- mylons 4y ago
  how? are you defending the iranian theocracy?

caeril 4y ago

davisoneee 4y ago
Or, you know, provide and expect evidence, rather than conspiracy? Try to improve the situation by providing some real data as to why _this_, or some other event, IS being driven by Mossad/CIA/whoever, rather than just throwing snark into an online chat. The world doesn't benefit from people just throwing shit at each other. If you have evidence, educate the world. If you don't, useful actions would be to _look_ for evidence, not just promote antagonism.
twixfel 4y ago
How about some evidence? And why are you getting all high and mighty? Your stance is among the basest imaginable, you have no reason to speak in that way.
davisoneee 4y ago
Further, editing your message to completely remove all trace of the original is highly disingenuous. Even if there is strong concern for CIA and Mossad in this situation, do you think your snark does anything to improve the situation? Do you think it brings people towards, or pushes people away from your position? Or perhaps people just read your snark and think "im not going to even fucking pay attention to this guy"? Or is it just for your own shits and giggles?

luckylion 4y ago

> It would hardly be a conspiracy theory to pin this on Israel rather than women suddenly waking up and deciding to riot after thousands of years of oppression. Or, you know, it could be that Iranian women just want that freedom back that was taken from them some 40 years ago. It's not like they've had to cover their hair and follow islamist rules for all of history. If you have any trust in pictures left, go look it up. You'll find plenty of photos of Iranians looking very much like Westerners 70 years ago. I understand the love for conspiracy theories, but this one is just lacking any effort.

amir734jj 4y ago
Agreed. People are just tired.

davisoneee 4y ago

Miriam Webster Definition of conspiracy theory : a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators You have no evidence that this is likely to be Israel. Just speculation. This is conspiracy theory by definition.

jimbob45 4y ago
People are taking my comment out of context. I'm not saying that Israel is 100% for sure behind this. I'm offering an equally likely explanation in response to the individual above who concluded that this was definitely because women randomly decided that they'd had enough. Was it actually Israel? Was it just angry women? Nobody truly knows, least of all me or GP.
- davisoneee 4y ago
  There's been a gradual relaxing of adherance to the hijab in Iran for decades, and this year a woman was murdered because of her 'lax' hijab. You are entertaining the idea that this _could_ be an israeli plot, which you don't have evidence for, alongside the idea it's just "angry women". So yes, even _with_ the context, it sounds a lot like you're spouting conspiracy theories behind a veil of "but I'm just asking _'what if'_?"
  - ethotool 4y ago
    This has been going on for many years in the Middle East: https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/the-new-middle-east-and-its-constructive-chaos-1.1218872 https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/the-new-middle-east-and-...
- luckylion 4y ago
  "Randomly", after a woman died after being taken into custody by the moral police. But sure, it's "equally likely" that Israel somehow sprinkled the rebellion-seeds over Iran and now the women are rising up. Totally just as likely.

wishfish 4y ago

How many major protests have happened in Iran over the past ten years? That's actually a serious question. I remember big ones in 2019. Smaller ones since in the time before the current uprising. Some before 2019 as well. There's tremendous anger beneath the surface in Iran and it's not caused by Mossad. Iran banned abortion in 1979. There's been a baby boom since. The country is lopsided towards young people. People who don't want the repressive government. They want women to live freely. Many of them want the gay people of their country treated equally. It's an insult to them to say this revolt isn't grassroots. There's so much anger from people who just want to live quiet, normal lives in freedom. Without the rule of clerics and morality police. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a Mossad and/or CIA agent on the ground in Tehran is providing some assistance. That's what they do in times of unrest in an unfriendly country. But "some assistance" is a far cry from fomenting. This is mainly an Iranian effort.

throwaway2202 4y ago
At mild risk of getting downvoted. At least in the last 10 years, the protests has been motivated by economic situation. people don’t like the government but they also remember how bad the last revolution was, iraq-iran war after it on top. Iran’s banning of abortion matters far less than gov successfully promoting lower number of children through the 90s. Matters far less because numbers, easy to verify.
- throwaway2202 4y ago
  To add the economic situation is consequence of trump pulling out of the nuclear agreement, sanctioning, and democratic administration keeping the status quo. @dang my other comment is dead. Flagged or not according to guidelines?
throwaway2202 4y ago
Edit: Missed the gay part. It’s more complicated than it looks. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Iran https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_history_in_Iran . But while I agree there’s official repression, I heard an argument once that a gay person who keeps it private is capable of natural reproduction in iran, whereas in the modern western gay family, they have to go through surrogacy, which is not cheap and outprices some men, not sure if even common. So in this sense the percentage of gays in the US will shrink over time but they have good gay rights. The other is the Iranian government repression rarely comes into action. if a male is known to be gay by those around him, good chance he won’t get reported to government since the punishment is too extreme for anyone to bear it on their conscious, even if the person is truly religious, they prefer to be wrong, and if they are correct, government and the muslim law requires witnesses or conclusive evidence, otherwise defamation. Muslim law bans gays, it "happens" to ban defamation but not sure what is the punishment of the latter. So in this climate the way of loudly claiming gay rights on streets not only embarrasses one’s acquaintances since defiance of norms, it is actually self-sentencing. This is a tight bound, but there’s no law in iran or anywhere else I assume that forces men to marry anyone throughout their lives. There’s formal repression, less rights, but reality is also important.