4 ms·

(as a non-american) I don't think it was stolen, but the whole "vote via mail" thing made me really suspicious

fknorangesite 4y ago
> the whole "vote via mail" thing made me really suspicious Why? Mail-in voting is hardly unique to the US; what made you suspicious?
- tryauuum 4y ago
  quite unique for my country (Russia). Though they recently started to do some remote "blockchain-based" voting in Moscow, which is widely considered to be a fraud
  - foobiekr 4y ago
    I mean.. most things blockchain are.
  - mr_toad 4y ago
    I think most people outside Russia (and some inside it) consider all Russian elections to be fraudulent.
    - tryauuum 4y ago
      that's not the point. The point is, we don't have voting by mail in Russia and I think it help to observe how fraudulent the elections are.
diputsmonro 4y ago
It really is nothing to be suspicious about. Full vote by mail had already been the norm in some US states for years, and most states allowed for it in specific circumstances. The infrastructure, laws, etc., were already there, they just needed to be expanded. Expanding it has always been in the national conversation, it has just been a matter of figuring it out and priority. So when a global pandemic occurs and we're trying everything we can to isolate and socially distance, that priority changes real quick. People get talking and problems get solved. Of course, sore losers will complain about anything to justify their loss, and this "new thing" was a prime scapegoat. It was also well known ahead of time that the mail in votes would be largely Democratic (because COVID was VERY politicized and democrats were more likely to follow quarantine guidance and therefore vote by mail). So when the votes came in, they pointed to that imbalance and called it "fraud". Besides all that, there's no reason to be more suspicious of mail-in ballots than in-person ones. In-person, you mark a paper ballot and then put it in a stack... which then gets mailed somewhere else. If someone is going to be changing mail-in ballots, then they're already in a position to be changing regular ones as well (and every election security professional will tell you that paper ballots are more secure than electronic ones).
- tryauuum 4y ago
  It's true that the one who counts the votes matters and this doesn't change with mail voting / in-person voting The one advantage of physical voting I can think of is the ability to just be close to voting station on voting day, counting people who go in there, asking people (who are willing to share) for whom did they vote. This allows to independently check if fraud exists.
  - gcanyon 4y ago
    Exit polls are notoriously inaccurate. Given the level of fraud thus far demonstrated (minimal) there is zero likelihood of "checking" by exit polls.
astrange 4y ago
The issue with mail-in voting is that you can be influenced by your family because it's not done in a secret booth, but it doesn't appear to lead to mass voter fraud. (A few people have been charged with voting their spouse's ballots.)

> the whole "vote via mail" thing made me really suspicious Why? Mail-in voting is hardly unique to the US; what made you suspicious?

tryauuum 4y ago
quite unique for my country (Russia). Though they recently started to do some remote "blockchain-based" voting in Moscow, which is widely considered to be a fraud
- foobiekr 4y ago
  I mean.. most things blockchain are.
- mr_toad 4y ago
  I think most people outside Russia (and some inside it) consider all Russian elections to be fraudulent.
  - tryauuum 4y ago
    that's not the point. The point is, we don't have voting by mail in Russia and I think it help to observe how fraudulent the elections are.

diputsmonro 4y ago

It really is nothing to be suspicious about. Full vote by mail had already been the norm in some US states for years, and most states allowed for it in specific circumstances. The infrastructure, laws, etc., were already there, they just needed to be expanded. Expanding it has always been in the national conversation, it has just been a matter of figuring it out and priority. So when a global pandemic occurs and we're trying everything we can to isolate and socially distance, that priority changes real quick. People get talking and problems get solved. Of course, sore losers will complain about anything to justify their loss, and this "new thing" was a prime scapegoat. It was also well known ahead of time that the mail in votes would be largely Democratic (because COVID was VERY politicized and democrats were more likely to follow quarantine guidance and therefore vote by mail). So when the votes came in, they pointed to that imbalance and called it "fraud". Besides all that, there's no reason to be more suspicious of mail-in ballots than in-person ones. In-person, you mark a paper ballot and then put it in a stack... which then gets mailed somewhere else. If someone is going to be changing mail-in ballots, then they're already in a position to be changing regular ones as well (and every election security professional will tell you that paper ballots are more secure than electronic ones).

tryauuum 4y ago
It's true that the one who counts the votes matters and this doesn't change with mail voting / in-person voting The one advantage of physical voting I can think of is the ability to just be close to voting station on voting day, counting people who go in there, asking people (who are willing to share) for whom did they vote. This allows to independently check if fraud exists.
- gcanyon 4y ago
  Exit polls are notoriously inaccurate. Given the level of fraud thus far demonstrated (minimal) there is zero likelihood of "checking" by exit polls.

astrange 4y ago

The issue with mail-in voting is that you can be influenced by your family because it's not done in a secret booth, but it doesn't appear to lead to mass voter fraud. (A few people have been charged with voting their spouse's ballots.)