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> Part of that reason is discord is just spying equipment dressed up with a nice UI. In what way? I didn't know about this.

by d23 4y ago

ivraatiems 4y ago
Can't speak for the parent, but I suspect they're referring to two things: 1) A good chunk of Discord is owned by Tencent, a big Chinese conglomerate 2) Discord decrypts and then re-encrypts content on its servers, allegedly for efficiency reasons I think for a small startup that is making games/software which are non-controversial, Discord might still be a fine choice. For anything requiring assurances of enterprise-grade security, I'd avoid it.
- judge2020 4y ago
  > 1) A good chunk of Discord is owned by Tencent, a big Chinese conglomerate The most credible source from this is this article[0], but since it's VC we have no idea what the ownership looks like. For all we know Tencent owns 5% or less of Discord, especially given two companies are listed before them in the article: > The round was led by Greenoaks Capital with participation from Firstmark, Tencent, IVP, Index Ventures and Technology Opportunity Partners. In general Tencent has more pull in other big gaming companies[1], which is more concerning imo. 0: https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/21/gaming-chat-startup-discord-raises-150m-surpassing-2b-valuation/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/21/gaming-chat-startup-discor... 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190677
nightpool 4y ago
In no possible way, OP is just making grandiose claims without any shred of evidence.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Discord Inc should have thought better on the implications of having Tencent in the owner list.
- Test0129 4y ago
  Without any shred of evidence? Lmao. Lets start with the privacy policy [1] "We may also use content posted in public spaces to help power features like Server Discovery and to help us identify harmful content on the services." So they monitor all chat for badthink. "We collect information about the device you are using to access the services. This includes information like your IP address, operating system information, browser information, and information about your device settings, such as your microphone and/or camera." Inappropriate access to hardware and private information. "We may collect or share personal data if we think someone’s life is in danger—for example, to help resolve an urgent medical situation." So not only do they monitor chat they monitor it for someone's life being in danger. Not sure how this is their responsibility. > We may share information in response to a request for information if we believe disclosure is required by law, including meeting national security or law enforcement requirements Say something 2 years ago that is logged forever and law enforcement goes on a fishing expedition when the party in power thinks its wrongthink. > We retain personal information for as long as it is needed for the purposes for which we collected it. Information is never deleted. There's even more in the privacy policy but I'm not going to keep rooting around in it to prove my point that you're wrong. Funding [2] Discord has taken funding from Tencent which means they're liable to the CCP. Moreover, the list of funders includes large companies known for suing/taking legal action against users historically. Sony, for example. Moreover EVERYTHING YOU DO including interacting on unrelated websites that support discord goes to them. They MINE YOUR DATA and you have no control over it. Your argument my claims are gradiose is false on its face. I assume you're a paid shill. Discord is spyware by any other name. Maybe you're willing to accept the risks but most people use it ignorant of the fact they are as bad as Facebook when it comes to spying. [1] https://discord.com/privacy https://discord.com/privacy [2] https://app.dealroom.co/companies/discord https://app.dealroom.co/companies/discord
  - nightpool 4y ago
    > So they monitor all chat for badthink. "Badthink"? Please. They engage in automatic moderation based on keywords and maybe some ML to detect spam, like any other company. And only based on chats that happen in already-public servers that have opted into the server discovery feature. > Inappropriate access to hardware and private information. Inappropriate? Private information? Name one server that wouldn't store some analytics data about your user agent and IP. > So not only do they monitor chat they monitor it for someone's life being in danger. Not sure how this is their responsibility. If Discord gets a T&S ticket about a possible suicide attempt, what do you think they should do about it, ignore it? I would hope that Discord would use their best judgement and the information at their disposal to notify the proper authorities, as long as the authorities in question could be trusted to act in a non-confrontational manner (unfortunately, most can't and often inflame the situation) > Say something 2 years ago that is logged forever and law enforcement goes on a fishing expedition when the party in power thinks its wrongthink. Okay, and? How is that "discord is just spying equipment"? If you have a server with archival logs and search capabilities, which are feature that users really, really value out of discord compared to e.g. IRC, then you're not going to get out of the requirement to present those logs to authorities if legally required.
judge2020 4y ago
It's not e2ee, but I imagine it's a tall order to ask for communities with thousands of members to support E2EE while also supporting message history (since you want things like old messages searchable) and complex mentions (ie. @role notifications) with maybe a thousand messages per minute being sent across all channels/topics.
fps 4y ago
Discord monitors all running processes on a user's machine so it can tag users with a "now playing ..." status text. The content of chats/private messages is also accessible to them. Their ToS allows them to sell/share this data.
- vel0city 4y ago
  > The content of chats/private messages is also accessible to them. Not only that, the attachments on private messages are publicly visible. Send an attachment in a private chat. Grab the link. Open it in a browser unaffiliated with your Discord login. wget it on a VM a thousand miles away. Its now publicly hosted.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    Attachment links include the server ID but not the channel ID, so it's not like you can enumerate for files in a server by obtaining the server and channel IDs. Each attachment's ID is in a snowflake[0], so the urls are cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/:SERVER_ID/:ATTACHMENT_ID/:filename.png 0: https://discord.com/developers/docs/resources/channel#attachment-object https://discord.com/developers/docs/resources/channel#attach...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

> Part of that reason is discord is just spying equipment dressed up with a nice UI. In what way? I didn't know about this.

by d23 4y ago

> Part of that reason is discord is just spying equipment dressed up with a nice UI. In what way? I didn't know about this.

ivraatiems 4y ago

Can't speak for the parent, but I suspect they're referring to two things: 1) A good chunk of Discord is owned by Tencent, a big Chinese conglomerate 2) Discord decrypts and then re-encrypts content on its servers, allegedly for efficiency reasons I think for a small startup that is making games/software which are non-controversial, Discord might still be a fine choice. For anything requiring assurances of enterprise-grade security, I'd avoid it.

judge2020 4y ago
> 1) A good chunk of Discord is owned by Tencent, a big Chinese conglomerate The most credible source from this is this article[0], but since it's VC we have no idea what the ownership looks like. For all we know Tencent owns 5% or less of Discord, especially given two companies are listed before them in the article: > The round was led by Greenoaks Capital with participation from Firstmark, Tencent, IVP, Index Ventures and Technology Opportunity Partners. In general Tencent has more pull in other big gaming companies[1], which is more concerning imo. 0: https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/21/gaming-chat-startup-discord-raises-150m-surpassing-2b-valuation/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/12/21/gaming-chat-startup-discor... 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190677 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21190677

nightpool 4y ago

In no possible way, OP is just making grandiose claims without any shred of evidence.

mschuster91 4y ago
Discord Inc should have thought better on the implications of having Tencent in the owner list.
Test0129 4y ago
Without any shred of evidence? Lmao. Lets start with the privacy policy [1] "We may also use content posted in public spaces to help power features like Server Discovery and to help us identify harmful content on the services." So they monitor all chat for badthink. "We collect information about the device you are using to access the services. This includes information like your IP address, operating system information, browser information, and information about your device settings, such as your microphone and/or camera." Inappropriate access to hardware and private information. "We may collect or share personal data if we think someone’s life is in danger—for example, to help resolve an urgent medical situation." So not only do they monitor chat they monitor it for someone's life being in danger. Not sure how this is their responsibility. > We may share information in response to a request for information if we believe disclosure is required by law, including meeting national security or law enforcement requirements Say something 2 years ago that is logged forever and law enforcement goes on a fishing expedition when the party in power thinks its wrongthink. > We retain personal information for as long as it is needed for the purposes for which we collected it. Information is never deleted. There's even more in the privacy policy but I'm not going to keep rooting around in it to prove my point that you're wrong. Funding [2] Discord has taken funding from Tencent which means they're liable to the CCP. Moreover, the list of funders includes large companies known for suing/taking legal action against users historically. Sony, for example. Moreover EVERYTHING YOU DO including interacting on unrelated websites that support discord goes to them. They MINE YOUR DATA and you have no control over it. Your argument my claims are gradiose is false on its face. I assume you're a paid shill. Discord is spyware by any other name. Maybe you're willing to accept the risks but most people use it ignorant of the fact they are as bad as Facebook when it comes to spying. [1] https://discord.com/privacy https://discord.com/privacy [2] https://app.dealroom.co/companies/discord https://app.dealroom.co/companies/discord
- nightpool 4y ago
  > So they monitor all chat for badthink. "Badthink"? Please. They engage in automatic moderation based on keywords and maybe some ML to detect spam, like any other company. And only based on chats that happen in already-public servers that have opted into the server discovery feature. > Inappropriate access to hardware and private information. Inappropriate? Private information? Name one server that wouldn't store some analytics data about your user agent and IP. > So not only do they monitor chat they monitor it for someone's life being in danger. Not sure how this is their responsibility. If Discord gets a T&S ticket about a possible suicide attempt, what do you think they should do about it, ignore it? I would hope that Discord would use their best judgement and the information at their disposal to notify the proper authorities, as long as the authorities in question could be trusted to act in a non-confrontational manner (unfortunately, most can't and often inflame the situation) > Say something 2 years ago that is logged forever and law enforcement goes on a fishing expedition when the party in power thinks its wrongthink. Okay, and? How is that "discord is just spying equipment"? If you have a server with archival logs and search capabilities, which are feature that users really, really value out of discord compared to e.g. IRC, then you're not going to get out of the requirement to present those logs to authorities if legally required.

judge2020 4y ago

It's not e2ee, but I imagine it's a tall order to ask for communities with thousands of members to support E2EE while also supporting message history (since you want things like old messages searchable) and complex mentions (ie. @role notifications) with maybe a thousand messages per minute being sent across all channels/topics.

fps 4y ago

Discord monitors all running processes on a user's machine so it can tag users with a "now playing ..." status text. The content of chats/private messages is also accessible to them. Their ToS allows them to sell/share this data.

vel0city 4y ago
> The content of chats/private messages is also accessible to them. Not only that, the attachments on private messages are publicly visible. Send an attachment in a private chat. Grab the link. Open it in a browser unaffiliated with your Discord login. wget it on a VM a thousand miles away. Its now publicly hosted.
- judge2020 4y ago
  Attachment links include the server ID but not the channel ID, so it's not like you can enumerate for files in a server by obtaining the server and channel IDs. Each attachment's ID is in a snowflake[0], so the urls are cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/:SERVER_ID/:ATTACHMENT_ID/:filename.png 0: https://discord.com/developers/docs/resources/channel#attachment-object https://discord.com/developers/docs/resources/channel#attach...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]