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Rather than fine the company, fine the shareholders of public companies. If they can’t afford their share of the fine, then they have to sell their shares to pa

Rather than fine the company, fine the shareholders of public companies. If they can’t afford their share of the fine, then they have to sell their shares to pay it. That would immediately force them to comply. Edit: Although looking at that and this fine, if you own $1000 of google shares, you would owe $3…

madsbuch 4y ago
This is an absurd idea. That would be a complete detriment to one of the greatest innovations in financing: Seperation of capital and responsibility. When you buy a stock you know you can not loose more than the stocks value, so you dare to invest. Also, would bond holders also be burdened with this? what about derivatives?
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Not that absurd. People would start doing way more due diligences to invest. They would put pressure on the company to not do something stupid. You invest in bad actors and want to make money with it? Well you should pay the consequences for that.
- bdefore 4y ago
  That great innovation is at the root of the market's disregard for negative externalities such as climate change. I'm not in support of jailing shareholders, but say a tax on the dividends of shareholders who front the capital for companies that impose a burden on civilization doesn't sound outrageous to me. Especially since fining the company directly doesn't necessarily discourage bad behavior at the tiers of power that have the ability to take a different path.
- poizan42 4y ago
  Maybe a better idea would be to force the company to emit new shares by some percantage of their total number of shares and transfer those to the state. That way shareholders lose a bit of value by dilution. And after enough fines the state will eventually reach a controlling majority ownership and can directly stop the company from further transgressions.
adament 4y ago
But this is exactly what happens when you fine a company. Unless you fine the company enough for it to go into bankruptcy in which case the shareholders are protected by limited liability and the creditors take the hit instead. But the bankruptcy angle is completely irrelevant to this case, none of the fines considered are close yo bankrupting Google.
registeredcorn 4y ago
I have investments in a lot of different companies. I have no idea if any of them are breaking the law. I have to assume that they aren't, because they have not been charged or convicted of any crimes previously. I have done as much due diligence as I can to assume that their company is financially solvent and stable. If they have lied to me about any of those things, I have no way of knowing until after the fact. Leaving my money in a savings account is not an option, because the interest rates are taxed, and don't even cover the cost of inflation, let alone give me any sort of growth for retirement. That means not only would I not preparing for my future, I would actively be losing money by not investing. If a country violates international sanctions, should I be sent to The Hauge because I have bonds tied to the bridges and roads being built by that government? To put it another way: If a restaurant is shut down for health code violations found in the kitchen, should the valet be lectured about proper food preparation?

madsbuch 4y ago

This is an absurd idea. That would be a complete detriment to one of the greatest innovations in financing: Seperation of capital and responsibility. When you buy a stock you know you can not loose more than the stocks value, so you dare to invest. Also, would bond holders also be burdened with this? what about derivatives?

BiteCode_dev 4y ago
Not that absurd. People would start doing way more due diligences to invest. They would put pressure on the company to not do something stupid. You invest in bad actors and want to make money with it? Well you should pay the consequences for that.
bdefore 4y ago
That great innovation is at the root of the market's disregard for negative externalities such as climate change. I'm not in support of jailing shareholders, but say a tax on the dividends of shareholders who front the capital for companies that impose a burden on civilization doesn't sound outrageous to me. Especially since fining the company directly doesn't necessarily discourage bad behavior at the tiers of power that have the ability to take a different path.
poizan42 4y ago
Maybe a better idea would be to force the company to emit new shares by some percantage of their total number of shares and transfer those to the state. That way shareholders lose a bit of value by dilution. And after enough fines the state will eventually reach a controlling majority ownership and can directly stop the company from further transgressions.

adament 4y ago

But this is exactly what happens when you fine a company. Unless you fine the company enough for it to go into bankruptcy in which case the shareholders are protected by limited liability and the creditors take the hit instead. But the bankruptcy angle is completely irrelevant to this case, none of the fines considered are close yo bankrupting Google.

registeredcorn 4y ago

I have investments in a lot of different companies. I have no idea if any of them are breaking the law. I have to assume that they aren't, because they have not been charged or convicted of any crimes previously. I have done as much due diligence as I can to assume that their company is financially solvent and stable. If they have lied to me about any of those things, I have no way of knowing until after the fact. Leaving my money in a savings account is not an option, because the interest rates are taxed, and don't even cover the cost of inflation, let alone give me any sort of growth for retirement. That means not only would I not preparing for my future, I would actively be losing money by not investing. If a country violates international sanctions, should I be sent to The Hauge because I have bonds tied to the bridges and roads being built by that government? To put it another way: If a restaurant is shut down for health code violations found in the kitchen, should the valet be lectured about proper food preparation?