4 ms·

So... What's the end result? Google has to charge for Android? Ask users their search preference?

MikusR 4y ago
They already do both of those things.
wongarsu 4y ago
I think this is about Google's Android certification, that allows manufacturers to ship Android with any google app. Some like the Play Store are basically required by users, but Google makes it a "get all or none" deal with a lot of other demands, which includes a google search widget.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  And Apple makes it so you can't even install apps outside their app store.
- josefx 4y ago
  The deal isn't just "all or none" on a single phone, it is all or none over the entire inventory. If you sell an android phone with the play store you are no longer allowed to sell any android devices without it.
izacus 4y ago
Think of the situation with Chinese non-Google phones. You install your favorite app and it crashes on launch because the manufacturer messed with the system APIs. You run another app and it gets killed in the background, not receiving messages, because it's not on the list of your phone manufacturer partners. This is the situation with degoogled Android today - a huge compatibility mess.
moffkalast 4y ago
Android should damn well ship with multiple app stores and multiple browsers, not just the GoogleApprovedTM app store where they ban anyone that looks at them wrong or thinks about blocking ads for more than 2 miliseconds. The exclusive app stores are both iOS and Android's greatest strengths and failings at the same time. Apple is arguably the far worse offender there too. If there was an alternative app store on iOS everyone would jump ship immediately. Imagine having crossplatform Steam/GoG Mobile stores for mobile games, etc.
- izacus 4y ago
  The way this EU ruling is setup, they want your Android not only ship with other stores, but allow sales with exclusively those stores as well. Just like the case with Chinese phones now - I have bunch of people in my family angry because they bought Huawei and they now can't use their banking apps because it's an incompatible build of Android that requires publishing in a Huawei AppStore to work. That's worse. That's strictly worse for everyone, even the OEMs will lose their market to Apple by driving their ecosystem into the ground... again. Samsungs, Nokias, ASUS, etc. did this tragedy of the commons failure repeatedly and reliably.
  - moffkalast 4y ago
    > because it's an incompatible build of Android sigh I guess it's impossible to go 5 min without somebody wrecking the ecosystem. I don't understand how they can even manage to be incompatible, it's fucking Java, or more commonly these days just a wrapped PWA.
    - izacus 4y ago
      I mean, in days of Android 4.x, Samsung wasn't able to not mess with core Android APIs for any release (and the bugs weren't even same across different models of the same darn phone). My favorite bug in career is when we found out that OneUI (2? Don't remember the version exactly.) redefined @android:color/white resource. It was blue. So anything that was set to white in your app was blue on that one model. That's the quality you can expect from the companies EU is trying to protect here. -_-
    - warkdarrior 4y ago
      Requiring OEMs to be compatible with some Google-given (God-given?) Android version is a constraint on their business and their users. The point of EU's ruling is to allow incompatibilities to flourish. Let each user pick the best Android flavor they want.
  - twobitshifter 4y ago
    Incompatible isn’t the right word for it. The banking app could run on the Huawei phone, but they’re relying on google to certify the device through the play store.
jillesvangurp 4y ago
The end result is that Google either explains to their shareholders where their dividend is going every quarter or they adjust to what amounts to a fairly consistent signal out of the EU that people there are running out of patience with Google not complying with the rules there and that that has financial consequences. So, it's a game of ever escalating fines. At some point, they'll hit diesel gate levels, which caused a bit of an existential crisis for VW a few years ago. That signal actually mostly came from the US BTW. The EU is demonstrating that that kind of thin can work both ways and that they might go there squeeze some US companies when they misbehave. As for Google and Apple, Amazon, MS, Facebook, etc., they've been going through rounds of increasingly larger fines from different countries in the EU and them doing the absolute minimum to maybe toe the line but never entirely. It's not enough; they need to get more pro-active on this or they'll have to deal with bigger fines and lawyer fees. Very simple. Testing what is good enough in a court room like they have been doing is a costly strategy. Judges not amused/impressed so-far apparently.

They already do both of those things.

I think this is about Google's Android certification, that allows manufacturers to ship Android with any google app. Some like the Play Store are basically required by users, but Google makes it a "get all or none" deal with a lot of other demands, which includes a google search widget.

encryptluks2 4y ago
And Apple makes it so you can't even install apps outside their app store.
josefx 4y ago
The deal isn't just "all or none" on a single phone, it is all or none over the entire inventory. If you sell an android phone with the play store you are no longer allowed to sell any android devices without it.

izacus 4y ago

Think of the situation with Chinese non-Google phones. You install your favorite app and it crashes on launch because the manufacturer messed with the system APIs. You run another app and it gets killed in the background, not receiving messages, because it's not on the list of your phone manufacturer partners. This is the situation with degoogled Android today - a huge compatibility mess.

moffkalast 4y ago

Android should damn well ship with multiple app stores and multiple browsers, not just the GoogleApprovedTM app store where they ban anyone that looks at them wrong or thinks about blocking ads for more than 2 miliseconds. The exclusive app stores are both iOS and Android's greatest strengths and failings at the same time. Apple is arguably the far worse offender there too. If there was an alternative app store on iOS everyone would jump ship immediately. Imagine having crossplatform Steam/GoG Mobile stores for mobile games, etc.

izacus 4y ago
The way this EU ruling is setup, they want your Android not only ship with other stores, but allow sales with exclusively those stores as well. Just like the case with Chinese phones now - I have bunch of people in my family angry because they bought Huawei and they now can't use their banking apps because it's an incompatible build of Android that requires publishing in a Huawei AppStore to work. That's worse. That's strictly worse for everyone, even the OEMs will lose their market to Apple by driving their ecosystem into the ground... again. Samsungs, Nokias, ASUS, etc. did this tragedy of the commons failure repeatedly and reliably.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  > because it's an incompatible build of Android sigh I guess it's impossible to go 5 min without somebody wrecking the ecosystem. I don't understand how they can even manage to be incompatible, it's fucking Java, or more commonly these days just a wrapped PWA.
  - izacus 4y ago
    I mean, in days of Android 4.x, Samsung wasn't able to not mess with core Android APIs for any release (and the bugs weren't even same across different models of the same darn phone). My favorite bug in career is when we found out that OneUI (2? Don't remember the version exactly.) redefined @android:color/white resource. It was blue. So anything that was set to white in your app was blue on that one model. That's the quality you can expect from the companies EU is trying to protect here. -_-
  - warkdarrior 4y ago
    Requiring OEMs to be compatible with some Google-given (God-given?) Android version is a constraint on their business and their users. The point of EU's ruling is to allow incompatibilities to flourish. Let each user pick the best Android flavor they want.
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  Incompatible isn’t the right word for it. The banking app could run on the Huawei phone, but they’re relying on google to certify the device through the play store.

jillesvangurp 4y ago

The end result is that Google either explains to their shareholders where their dividend is going every quarter or they adjust to what amounts to a fairly consistent signal out of the EU that people there are running out of patience with Google not complying with the rules there and that that has financial consequences. So, it's a game of ever escalating fines. At some point, they'll hit diesel gate levels, which caused a bit of an existential crisis for VW a few years ago. That signal actually mostly came from the US BTW. The EU is demonstrating that that kind of thin can work both ways and that they might go there squeeze some US companies when they misbehave. As for Google and Apple, Amazon, MS, Facebook, etc., they've been going through rounds of increasingly larger fines from different countries in the EU and them doing the absolute minimum to maybe toe the line but never entirely. It's not enough; they need to get more pro-active on this or they'll have to deal with bigger fines and lawyer fees. Very simple. Testing what is good enough in a court room like they have been doing is a costly strategy. Judges not amused/impressed so-far apparently.