5 ms·

I recently got terminated for objecting to a company mass gathering next month where attendees fly in en made, socialize for 24 hours (with a 5k fun run in ther

I recently got terminated for objecting to a company mass gathering next month where attendees fly in en made, socialize for 24 hours (with a 5k fun run in there) and fly back the next day because it sounds like a body stressing plan and while I’m vaxxed and boosted my underlying health condition could make long COVID really severe. Not a gamble I want to take. The fact I questioned leadership and asserted it was exclusionary to those with health concerns by not having a virtual alternative, well, this is Texas and it would’ve been smarter for them to fire me for no reason. Have an appointment for a legal consult to figure out if name and shame is the next step. As long as UTSW’s update last slide shows R anywhere near 1 I’m going to use caution. I haven’t survived this lifetime disability and flourished by taking medical advice or alternative advice too stringently. There’s quacks in both.

RichardCNormos 4y ago
- patchtopic 4y ago
- BeefWellington 4y ago
  I don't believe the narrative was ever "You will not get COVID if you get these vaccines" given the CDC's own study said it was 90% effective against SARS-COV-2 infections.[1] Omicron and (to a lesser extent) Delta variants changed the game on transmission. They event provided the receipts in April 2021 of a study showing 90% decrease in virus transmission. You can choose to believe this is narrative but it was backed by evidence. The broader question about controlling misinformation is a tricky one and government pressuring social media companies into banning people isn't the ideal situation. However, framing it as people being banned for "Any suggestion to the contrary" is at the best disingenuous. What I saw were people advocating all manner of alternative to the vaccines and spreading disinformation getting banned. A specific instance: Remember all those yarns about how people would now be sterile because of the vaccine? Well, birth rates are now back up to where they were[2] and nobody's shown to have been sterilized because of it. It's one example of just outright misinformation that deserved a ban. This is the "fire in a crowded theatre" debate in different clothes, and it's a hard argument. If you think of this in terms of pure capitalist viewpoint, maybe instead of the government pressuring social media companies the alternative is that drug companies sue Meta et. al (and users) for defamation and libel. I'm not sure how that's a better system and wouldn't lead to the very same thing happening but it's the only alternative that seems immediately obvious. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm?s_cid=mm7013e3_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm?s_cid=mm... [2]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/01/10/covid-pandemic-caused-birthrate-decline/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/01/10/covid-pan...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - tohnjitor 4y ago
    Biden and Fauci both said that the vaccine will prevent infection.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      Can you provide a source?
      - itbeho 4y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32941155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32941155
        themitigating 4y ago
        I was wrong for Biden, I wouldn't expect a politican to make a absolute statement. What about Fauci?
        RichardCNormos 4y ago
        Don't strain your back moving that goal post.
  - somenameforme 4y ago
    If you'll excuse the sidetrack, I just want to hit on the "fire in a crowded theater" comment you made. It's frequently cited by people supportive of censorship, but it's quite an ironic choice once one learns the history of said quote. It was a comment quoted from Chief Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes (the same individual who also set legal precedent for state-driven eugenics with another oft referenced quote) in the case Schenck v. United States. And what was that case about? What was this "screaming fire in a crowded theater"? It was the analog that the government chose to use for being the same as them arresting people, under the Espionage Act, for the vile crime of handing out pamphlets encouraging people to resist the military draft. Shenck himself faced up to 30 years in prison. There could scarcely ever be a better argument against ever allowing the government the right to censor.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  > There was a time when the official narrative said "You will not get COVID if you get these vaccines" I've seen this claim, but don't recall "you won't get it at all if you have the vaccine" being the narrative when I got mine, which was pretty damn early. I've seen a couple articles posted on here by people making this claim, in support of it, but when I read the articles they end up failing to support it (though a poor or motivated-to-misunderstand reader might think they do) When was this? Was it for such a brief time that I might have missed it?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - itbeho 4y ago
    "You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations." - Joe Biden https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/...
    - yamtaddle 4y ago
      Read your link. Solidified my view that people pushing this are relying on deliberately-uncharitable or outright bad readings to support their position. Is this the best there is?
      - themaninthedark 4y ago
        Please reread. Politifact editorialized and downplayed what was said. Politifact: >President Joe Biden exaggerated when he spoke about the effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccine during a CNN town hall. "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden said. President Transcript: >But again, one last thing. I — we don’t talk enough to you about this, I don’t think. One last thing that’s really important is: We’re not in a position where we think that any virus — including the Delta virus, which is much more transmissible and more deadly in terms of non — unvaccinated people — the vi- — the various shots that people are getting now cover that. They’re — you’re okay. You’re not going to — you’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations. >MR. LEMON: Yeah. I want to stay on the subject. I want to get to Dr. Nicole Baldwin. She’s a pediatrician and a Republican. >Dr. Baldwin, go ahead. Where did Politifact get "President Joe Biden exaggerated" from? I see no attempt by the president to walk back or clarify what he said. Do we want to excuse people when they make bad statements because they are on our side?
- themitigating 4y ago
  "There was a time when the official narrative said "You will not get COVID if you get these vaccines"" Do you have a source?
  - mandmandam 4y ago
    There are many, and they are easy to find. Here's an AP News 'fact check' "debunking" a video which claimed Fauci said they weren't effective: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9996141232 https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9996141... I honestly have no idea how one can claim in good faith not to remember that this was the narrative. It was everywhere.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      Maybe I'm not seeing this in the ap article. Where does say "You will not get COVID if you get these vaccines" which you said was the official narrative? Could you paste the quote here? Edit or a similar statement that you won't get covid if you get the vaccine
  - djkivi 4y ago
    While President Biden may not be a Dr, but his wife is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNyZm6A0OfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNyZm6A0OfQ
peteradio 4y ago
Is that different (or worse) than excluding people from company events without having been vaccinated despite having a prior infection?
hbn 4y ago
What? Why didn't you just not go? What would the virtual alternative of that be, a video call? Why do you need your company to organize that? If you and a few other coworkers are too scared to go to the in-person event, setup a video call yourselves. Sounds like you made a big scene over nothing.

RichardCNormos 4y ago

patchtopic 4y ago
BeefWellington 4y ago
I don't believe the narrative was ever "You will not get COVID if you get these vaccines" given the CDC's own study said it was 90% effective against SARS-COV-2 infections.[1] Omicron and (to a lesser extent) Delta variants changed the game on transmission. They event provided the receipts in April 2021 of a study showing 90% decrease in virus transmission. You can choose to believe this is narrative but it was backed by evidence. The broader question about controlling misinformation is a tricky one and government pressuring social media companies into banning people isn't the ideal situation. However, framing it as people being banned for "Any suggestion to the contrary" is at the best disingenuous. What I saw were people advocating all manner of alternative to the vaccines and spreading disinformation getting banned. A specific instance: Remember all those yarns about how people would now be sterile because of the vaccine? Well, birth rates are now back up to where they were[2] and nobody's shown to have been sterilized because of it. It's one example of just outright misinformation that deserved a ban. This is the "fire in a crowded theatre" debate in different clothes, and it's a hard argument. If you think of this in terms of pure capitalist viewpoint, maybe instead of the government pressuring social media companies the alternative is that drug companies sue Meta et. al (and users) for defamation and libel. I'm not sure how that's a better system and wouldn't lead to the very same thing happening but it's the only alternative that seems immediately obvious. [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm?s_cid=mm7013e3_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7013e3.htm?s_cid=mm... [2]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/01/10/covid-pandemic-caused-birthrate-decline/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/01/10/covid-pan...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tohnjitor 4y ago
  Biden and Fauci both said that the vaccine will prevent infection.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Can you provide a source?
    - itbeho 4y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32941155 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32941155
      - themitigating 4y ago
        I was wrong for Biden, I wouldn't expect a politican to make a absolute statement. What about Fauci?
        RichardCNormos 4y ago
        Don't strain your back moving that goal post.
- somenameforme 4y ago
  If you'll excuse the sidetrack, I just want to hit on the "fire in a crowded theater" comment you made. It's frequently cited by people supportive of censorship, but it's quite an ironic choice once one learns the history of said quote. It was a comment quoted from Chief Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes (the same individual who also set legal precedent for state-driven eugenics with another oft referenced quote) in the case Schenck v. United States. And what was that case about? What was this "screaming fire in a crowded theater"? It was the analog that the government chose to use for being the same as them arresting people, under the Espionage Act, for the vile crime of handing out pamphlets encouraging people to resist the military draft. Shenck himself faced up to 30 years in prison. There could scarcely ever be a better argument against ever allowing the government the right to censor.
yamtaddle 4y ago
> There was a time when the official narrative said "You will not get COVID if you get these vaccines" I've seen this claim, but don't recall "you won't get it at all if you have the vaccine" being the narrative when I got mine, which was pretty damn early. I've seen a couple articles posted on here by people making this claim, in support of it, but when I read the articles they end up failing to support it (though a poor or motivated-to-misunderstand reader might think they do) When was this? Was it for such a brief time that I might have missed it?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- itbeho 4y ago
  "You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations." - Joe Biden https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/biden-exaggerates-efficacy-covid-19-vaccines/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/joe-biden/...
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Read your link. Solidified my view that people pushing this are relying on deliberately-uncharitable or outright bad readings to support their position. Is this the best there is?
    - themaninthedark 4y ago
      Please reread. Politifact editorialized and downplayed what was said. Politifact: >President Joe Biden exaggerated when he spoke about the effectiveness of the COVID-19 vaccine during a CNN town hall. "You're not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations," Biden said. President Transcript: >But again, one last thing. I — we don’t talk enough to you about this, I don’t think. One last thing that’s really important is: We’re not in a position where we think that any virus — including the Delta virus, which is much more transmissible and more deadly in terms of non — unvaccinated people — the vi- — the various shots that people are getting now cover that. They’re — you’re okay. You’re not going to — you’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations. >MR. LEMON: Yeah. I want to stay on the subject. I want to get to Dr. Nicole Baldwin. She’s a pediatrician and a Republican. >Dr. Baldwin, go ahead. Where did Politifact get "President Joe Biden exaggerated" from? I see no attempt by the president to walk back or clarify what he said. Do we want to excuse people when they make bad statements because they are on our side?
themitigating 4y ago
"There was a time when the official narrative said "You will not get COVID if you get these vaccines"" Do you have a source?
- mandmandam 4y ago
  There are many, and they are easy to find. Here's an AP News 'fact check' "debunking" a video which claimed Fauci said they weren't effective: https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9996141232 https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9996141... I honestly have no idea how one can claim in good faith not to remember that this was the narrative. It was everywhere.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Maybe I'm not seeing this in the ap article. Where does say "You will not get COVID if you get these vaccines" which you said was the official narrative? Could you paste the quote here? Edit or a similar statement that you won't get covid if you get the vaccine
- djkivi 4y ago
  While President Biden may not be a Dr, but his wife is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNyZm6A0OfQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNyZm6A0OfQ

peteradio 4y ago

Is that different (or worse) than excluding people from company events without having been vaccinated despite having a prior infection?

hbn 4y ago

What? Why didn't you just not go? What would the virtual alternative of that be, a video call? Why do you need your company to organize that? If you and a few other coworkers are too scared to go to the in-person event, setup a video call yourselves. Sounds like you made a big scene over nothing.